If You Had 5 minutes to Create Doubt

by roxanesophia 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • roxanesophia

    I regularly encounter JW's i knew while studying and it kills me that they would likely not listen long enough for me to tell them the truth about the truth. My mother says "Don't even bother. It's like finding out you were adopted. Not everyone is going to accept it or they might even choose to stay where they are anyway if the biological parent was to come back into the picture." I think that's a good illustration. The estranged parent being Jesus. When I decided to stop studying, I felt like i was torn between two masters, too.

    I feel like it's a lost cause. I'd need 5 days to tell people i care about stuck in the cult all that I know in order for them to wake up. Or maybe I'm underestimating what 5 minutes of reverse witnessing can do. My question is: from what you've learned about the WBTS, what seed would you plant in 5 minutes?

  • N.drew

    The seed doesn't matter. As soon as they think you are apposed, their apostate antenna will go up, then your both in trouble. Just keep it personal. Their saving power is not you and is not themselves. Just say that you love them, that you believe to seek righteousness does not mean listening to the Governing Body, that you feel freer now to seek Jehovah, as he is a Father and Fathers do not treat all their children the same like the society does. You might say if you ever want someone to talk to, not to inculcate, but to talk, you will be there (in case that is true). Peace!

  • DesirousOfChange

    If I had just 5 minutes, I'd ask for an explanation of "the generation" changes.

    Explain how you have had trouble understanding the new "overlap" -- does that make any sense to ANYONE?

    Do your research in the past changes, base on your efforts to understand the "new light", and that will confuse you (anyone) even further.

    At this point in time, the current understandint is that anyone of the annointed who was born in 1890+/- is of the same "generation" as their own child (born 1910); grandchild (born 1930); great-grandchild (born 1950); great-great-grandchild (born 1970); and great-great-great grandchild (born 1990) who is now 20 years old and may have the great-great-great-great grandchild of the original person we speak of here. That's 5, or 6, or even 7 generations......whoops! I mean seven......uh......well NOT generations, since according to the New Light, they are just ONE GENERATION as spoken of in Matt 24. WTF??

    Yeah, it's SO confusing. Probably a good idea to ask them for the correct understanding. Asking will take 5 minutes. Getting a reasonable answer will take forever!


  • Violia

    This has been effective for me,

    " Paradise and living forever, it is only a hope, it's not real it's just a hope, no one knows for sure.
    emphasis on "it is only a hope" That is a slam dunk

    I usually follow by saying worldly folks frequently believe they will go to heaven. That is their hope. Ours is paradise on earth. Tell me how that is really any different? I prefer to believe in going to heaven b/c it does not stop you from living a normal life here an now.

  • ScenicViewer

    I like to ask a few simple questions, not really expecting an answer. Such as....

    -Are you familiar with the Society's pyramid worship days?

    -Do you know how 1799 figured into the Society's thinking?

    -How about 1874?

    -What do you know about the 1925 Jubilee?

    -Have you ever heard of Beth Sarim?

    -Did you know that in 1941 the Society declared that 'Armageddon is only months away'?

    -And that in 1969 the Society told high school graduates that they needed to 'accept the fact that they would never grow old in this system'?

    -Did you know that in the early days of the blood issue it had nothing to do with transfusions, but the Society condemned getting small pox vaccinations?

    -And that the Organization once declared there is no such thing as germs?

    -Were you aware that until the 1980s interacial (black/white) couples were rejected from Gilead?

    -Did you know that the Society once taught that women were nothing but 'a rag, a bone, and a hank of hair'?

    -Do you know how many understandings the Society has had of the 'generation that will not pass away', from it's beginning until now? (6)

    -How much do you really know about the Organization's true history?

    And let them think. Sometimes information like this will soak in. They may want to know more.

  • wobble

    As I said on 00Dad's thread about waking up his sons, the trigger for each individual witness is different, shoving various issues under their nose will only convince them you are an opposer.

    The best thing is to make it plain that you are leading a happy and fulfilled life now, because they for sure are not.

    Perhaps a quick question that may lay afoundation would be "You know I have problems with the religion, surely you don't think it is perfect in every way? "

    Their reply will show you where they struggle, and you may be able to direct them to a good source of help, for example saying, "I read an excellent article about that on JW Facts. Org"

    Good luck.

  • punkofnice

    You won't 'reason' with a JW on doctrine as the Governing Body are the ONLY authority a JW will believe.

    Disagreement with the 7 men in Brooklyn (GB) can have terrible emotional consequences of being shunned by friends and family.....and God will lovingly murder non GB worshippers SOON!

    I'd be inclined to ask non doctrinal questions and just let them answer, don't argue, just let them stew. Throw in a casual comment for the pot.


    NonDub: 'What do you think of the UN as an organization in line with your watchtower beliefs?'

    JW: 'The UN do a lot of good work but the Bible clearly shows..........yadda yadda yadda.......beast in Revelation.......blah blah blah..........evil and Satan controlled.........boredom boredom boredom........................only JWs have the 'truth'..........(counting time for the monthly report on which they are judged)............etc etc etc.....!'

    NonDub: (If still awake by now - Casual) 'So what did you think of the watchtower's involvement with the UN as an NGO from 1991 until the UK's Guardian newspaper questioned it?'

    JW: (Some possible answers) 1: 'Oh, I never heard of that!' --or-- 'Oh, that, it was just a library ticket. Same as joining the library.'
    --or-- 'That's just Satan using the media and misleading people.'
    NonDub: 'Yeah?' Leaves it at that.

  • ambersun

    Roxanesophie I think your mother's illustration is a very accurate analogy of the JW mindset and emphasises how difficult it is to get through to them.

    Believe me, if I had the formula for 5 minutes of reverse witnessing I would let everyone know!! My heart drops everytime I hear of yet another youngster in the family getting baptised and wasting their young lives sitting in stuffy meeting halls and traipsing up and down people's pathways instead of fulfilling their REAL dreams, or to feel justified in using their considerable talents to the full instead of waiting for the 'New System' before they are allowed to relax and be normal without feeling guilty.

    I think the best thing to do is as wobble said, let them see that you are leading a happy and fulfilled life, and continue to show them kindness, support and be interested in them and concerned for them if they have problems, which is probably more than they will get from the 'loving' brothers in the congregation. You will then prove to them by example that 'apostates' are not the cold hearted, evil creatures under the control of Satan that the WTS makes us all out to be. I have already had several occasions when JW family members with problems have received compassion and support from me and hubby, and other 'worldly' family members, yet received nothing from the people they should have got it from, i.e. the 'loving' brothers.

    Nice one Punkofnice! I like your style and it's always worth a try

  • nateb

    I always comment on how tired and exhausted they look. This prompts them to vent about the rigorous JW schedule. Then I ask if they're happy. Invariably they say yes. Then I say that's great and that's all that matters. Then I say just so you're not expecting the end to come in your lifetime and you're planning for a good long life you're on the right track. Then I wish them well and remind them that I'm available to them.

  • DesirousOfChange

    Then I say just so you're not expecting the end to come in your lifetime and you're planning for a good long life you're on the right track.

    I recently had an elder who is not even 40 years old yet, explain in great detail his strategy and how he plans to draw a double pension when he retires......


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