Greetings everyone

by MoneurMallard 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • MoneurMallard

    I appear to have made an enemy already here simply by commenting on another thread my thoughts about Jesus and Buddhism, how the two are really hardly related, and a person named "possible-san" has decided to belabor a personal attack rather than a calm discussion. I assume though that there will be many ex-JW's here though that will be that way?

    (In response to Skeeter's comment below, I have hit my limit on replies 10 of 10 as a newbie).....

    Thank you for this Skeeter. Well presented. I apprecaite it. I don't claim to be an expert on my field, far from it, in fact any scholar of comparative religion must admit that he/she doesn't know all there is to know. No person can say with any dignity that they are 100% correct about any subject. The person who attacked me on the other thread simply did so out of selfish pride, I am sure, but with careful study, anyone can clearly see that the Jesus story has nothing to do with the Buddha. Buddha was an actual historical figure that lived, walked and breathed, there are numerous historical findings and settings for his existence as a human being. Jesus, of course, is just a story in a collection of tales written long after the time period in question, by unknown authors, with times, place and people all out of sequence from actual historical data. Once again, thank you though for the caution on the emotional status of many ex-jw's. I shall consider it.

  • skeeter1

    Welcome here.

    This site is made of a group of people who were profoundly touched by the Jehovah's Witnesses. I was taught from birth to only believe what they taught me as the "Truth." From the time I could talk, thier version of religion is what I had imprinted on me. The JWs had many rules that impacted my & others lives. We gave up college, married too young and too quick (like after a few weeks of dating) for fear of having premarital sex, we are shunned by our families for rejecting Jehovah, spent hundreds of hours in door-to-door work, wore pantyhose and ties, etc.

    Now, I come to find this religion was a farce. I am spiritually raped. Most of us on this Board realize we have been spiritually raped.

    Occassionally, we get well meaning JWs, Christians, Mormons, scholars etc. that drop in for a visit. They want us to believe as they believe; and immediately accept them as authority. But, we are very wary bunch of folks. We are especially wary of anyone who comes off as an expert on something. We are deeply mad at the Watchtower Society's claiming to be THE expert on religion, bible, research, etc. We found them to be wrong. We are gun-shy.

    So, being attacked sometimes happens. Remember, we are not as you. You are dealing with people who have been spiritually raped, and are trying to redefine what they believe in and who they will accept as authority.

    Lately, there are threads on a real, present day Australian criminal investigation into the JWs. It is now at the courts, and the Australian government has taken it on. But, when it first hit these pages, the messengers were attacked. And, the main messenger was Barbara Anderson whom most ex-JWs hold in high regard for her research.

    What I'm trying to say is that I'm sorry if you were attacked on another thread. It's just that we are wary of new people, people who come in as a self-appointed expert, moles who are inside Watchtower, etc. It's part of our background. You are dealing with people who were once in a cult....

    You may have done alot of research that we hadn't. Some of us are not ready to give up our newly identified "spirituality", whatever it is at the moment.

    Have you ever dated a girl/guy, and came on too strong? And, the girl/guy recoiled back? What if that girl/guy had been raped before? They would be especially sensitive. There are many sensitive souls on this board.

  • jamiebowers

    Welcome. I haven't read the other thread yet, but please note that English is not Possible sans first language. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not.

  • sizemik

    The article makes some valid points . . . but also clearly reveals an agenda along with an emotionally charged conclusion. This always rings alarm bells for me when being cited as an authoritative analysis . . . eg;

    You'd think a Creator might at least have the ability to bark up some good solid evidence.

    This summary also contains some logical fallacy . . .

    Then we have a particular astronomical event that would have attracted the attention of anyone interested in the "heavens." According to Luke 23:44-45, there occurred "about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour, and the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst." Yet not a single mention of such a three hour ecliptic event got recorded by anyone, including the astronomers and astrologers, anywhere in the world, including Pliny the Elder and Seneca who both recorded eclipses from other dates. Note also that, for obvious reasons, solar eclipses can't occur during a full moon (passovers always occur during full moons), Nor does a single contemporary person write about the earthquake described in Matthew 27:51-54 where the earth shook, rocks ripped apart (rent), and graves opened.

    This is a very one-dimensional summary and somewhat of an over simplification of how natural events were viewed and recorded. A quick read in Wikipedia soon establishes that. Any subjective analysis of this kind presented as conclusive proof must expect to be challenged by those with alternative and equally subjective viewpoints . . . especially on JWN.

    Not that I have personal issues with any of the conclusions . . . just saying, it's wide open to challenge . . . so expect it.

  • MoneurMallard

    The main focal point from the article that I appreciated, was the fact that no historical data whatsoever can be produced about any Jesus of Nazareth. There is no record of any city called "Nazareth" anywhere on the face of the earth, and there is no record of a man named "Jesus" from there. The only place "Jesus" can be found is in a set of gospels and epistles written hundreds of years after the alleged time period in question, containing all sorts of incorrect data surrounding the times and events described.

    Surely if someone is going to put faith in a book character and demand that others do as well and claim their lives depend on it, they should at least provide some kind of evidence that the figure even existed. Moreover, they should at least acknowledge that many people are happy without the figure, and are quite content to die peacefully and not exist ever again. Eternal life is already here for those of us with children, who recognize progeny as the true gift of life.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    It is very difficult to interact with (im)possible-san without giving him something to be offended about. He seems to think we should all share his set of values and do extraordinary amounts of grovelling to show appreciation for the tidbits he tosses us.

    A good read is Arthur Weigall's 'The Paganism in our Christianity'. The Watchtower quotes him in their attempts to trash the Trinity.

    Arthur was a Christian and an Egyptologist. He recognised many of the Jesus storys as myths that had been borrowed.

    Towards the end of the book I was feeling sorry for Arthur as he struggled to cherry pick enough bits of the Bible that might be about the 'real' Jesus to that he could keep his faith alive.


  • straightshooter

    Welcome to this great forum. Glad you joined.

  • possible-san

    Black Sheep.

    It is very difficult to interact with (im)possible-san without giving him something to be offended about. He seems to think we should all share his set of values and do extraordinary amounts of grovelling to show appreciation for the tidbits he tosses us.

    I see. LOL

    Surely I may be stern to an obstinate and arrogant person like you. (Especially, to an impolite person like you who continues using the expression "impossible-san.")
    Therefore, the expressions "we" "us" in your explanation are somewhat incorrect.

    Well, MoneurMallard sent PM to me.
    He and I ceased fire.


  • MoneurMallard

    I have no ego to bruise, as I rarely engage in debate anymore, simply knowing the facts of Xtianity's history, the damage it's done, the pograms, crusades, violence, arguments, countless denominations, etc. It's just a mess. It will be a great day when religion is finally abolished and logical free thinking people will be able to strive to higher goals, relying on the real true eternal life granted to us already, progeny.

    Why we cannot simply be happy as a society and people without fear or religion is beyond me at this point. People just seem to be too emotionally attached to existence, and they demand more from God than what they've already been given. Accepting that this is life, it's all we have or need is the most humbling experience a person can have. It's quite fulfilling to me to know that when I die, I will not have to worry about anything, no punishment, no invisible man in the clouds to face, no folklore whatsoever reserved in my heart keeping me from sanity.

    The Jewish religion actually has a stronghold on this concept, they don't believe in any kind of "hell" or place of torment or judgment, just Sheol, the grave, a permanent place of rest for the dead. The whole "resurrection" concept of course is entirely Xtian in nature. I was raised in a Jewish neighborhood, met with many Rabbis when I was younger, very nice people, actually, and not one of them was an extremist about their religion. The best part about them is they don't prosyletize, whereas Xtian missionaries seem to constantly be going door to door, baffle-gagging their way around with their religious tracts full of ballyhoo.

  • MoneurMallard

    Possible San,

    I would like to re-engage fire again, if possible. Or is that not possible? If not-possible, let me know, if possible, that would be great. We could even do something inherently pragmatic if you like, such as a world war II reinactment if you like, but only if it's possible with possible-san.

    On a more serious note, I'd like to hear your treatise on the astral-theological nature of Jesus if you have one.

    Shalom Aleichem

Share this