by Wonderment 39 Replies latest watchtower bible
Well, a literal translation means that you wither translate owrd for word or translate the literal meaning of the verses.
In the Case of John 1:1
John wrote in greek:
?ν ?ρχ? ?ν ? λ?γος κα? ? λ?γος ?ν πρ?ς τ?ν θε?ν κα? θε?ς ?ν ? λ?γος
| In | g 1722 |
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| thebeginning | g 746 |
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| was | g 1510 |
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| theWord, | g 3056 |
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| and | g 2532 |
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| theWord | g 3056 |
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| was | g 1510 |
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| with | g 4314 |
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| God, | g 2316 |
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| and | g 2532 |
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| theWord | g 3056 |
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| was | g 1510 |
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| God. | g 2316 |
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The interlinears I've looked at have it the other way around.
and God was the Word
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf
http://biblos.com/john/1-1.htm
Peace
PS Sac was making the arguement the other day along the lines of the early Christians being Jews. Since the Jews didnt believe in a trinity, and they never complain about the shift in the new testament, it would only make sense that they didnt believe that Jesus put it forward. Look at how they complain about circumcision, but John changes the substance of God and they dont say a word?
I like the footnote here.
PS Sac was making the arguement the other day along the lines of the early Christians being Jews. Since the Jews didnt believe in a trinity, and they never complain about the shift in the new testament, it would only make sense that they didnt believe that Jesus put it forward. Look at how they complain about circumcision, but John changes the substance of God and they dont say a word?
WHile Jesus was accused of making Himself God and was almost stoned for it, the 1st century Christians didn't seem to have an issue with his divinity or claims that he was divine.
The resurrection probably was vital in that.
The Trinity was a much later wording of what the 1st century Christians believed and one can argue that they probably wouldn't have worded it that way, the fact tha it isn't present in the NT shows that putting Jesus's nature into words wasn't big on the list of "things to do" or that for them "half a word was enough".
John makes it clear that He views Jesus as God in substance and that Jesus was accused of making himself God or at least equal to God in the eyes of those in the synagogues.
Paul makes it clear that He views Jesus as the same form of God, that in Jesus the fulness of divinity/deity dwells.
Paul makes it clear that He views Jesus as the same form of God, that in Jesus the fulness of divinity/deity dwells.
I can agree with that, because Jesus became a 100 percent awakened Master due mostly to his having a nice head start from his multiple previous incarnations. However, Paul also makes it clear that he wants his audience to achieve the same state that Jesus did. Right here in Galatians he clinched the deal that Christ is not a man but something that is formed inside a person.
New International Version(©1984)
My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,
English Standard Version(©2001)
my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you!
New American Standard Bible(©1995)
My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you--
International Standard Version(©2008)
My children, I am suffering birth pains for you again until the Messiah is formed in you.
GOD'S WORD® Translation(©1995)
My children, I am suffering birth pains for you again until Christ is formed in you.
King James Bible
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
American King James Version
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
American Standard Version
My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you--
Bible in Basic English
My children, of whom I am again in birth-pains till Christ is formed in you,
Douay-Rheims Bible
My little children, of whom I am in labour again, until Christ be formed in you.
Darby Bible Translation
my children, of whom I again travail in birth until Christ shall have been formed in you:
English Revised Version
My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you,
Webster's Bible Translation
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again, until Christ be formed in you,
Weymouth New Testament
you for whom I am again, as it were, undergoing the pains of childbirth, until Christ is fully formed within you.
World English Bible
My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ is formed in you--
Actually, Diest, we have good evidence from prior to 130 A.D. that the Jews were very unhappy with the Christian worship of Jesus. If you read through the Dialogue with Trypho, for example, you will find several passages where Trypho, a Jew who interacts with St. Justin Martyr, expresses his irritation with worship of Jesus.
Fact is, we don't really have NT evidence about what, precisely, the Jewish problems were with the Christians. It wasn't "the Jews" who had a problem with circumcision, it was Judiasers within the Christian church. In those very few places where we read commentary on the Jewish reaction to the Christians, we see that they are charging that the Christians are telling Jews to ignore the Law. It isn't obvious what this means, but I'd suggest a complaint about the first Commandment might have some plausibility.
I can agree with that, because Jesus became a 100 percent awakened Master due mostly to his having a nice head start from his multiple previous incarnations
And how MANY incarnations were those?
And how MANY incarnations were those?
I dunno, but this guy has a pretty good track record ....
The Past Lives of Jesus According to Edgar Cayce
Well, the truth, in part, is as follows:
Definite article or no definite article, John 1:1 describes Jesus as 'God' or 'a god'. It really makes no difference whatsoever. Only the Watchtower want us to think differently.
We know that the Hebrew Scriptures make it clear that Jehovah, or YHWH, is the only true God. Indeed, he says 'other than me there are none'.
Absolutely right!
If there is only one true God, and all others are false, then the Watchtower is saying that Jesus is a false god.
I am not a greek grammarian but I did research this quite thoroughly a few years back and was surprised by what I found in favour of Jesus being God. Just read Revelation for instance. How can the Watchtower miss it?
If Jesus was not God, there is no way on earth that John 1:1 would describe him as such.
Also, there are numerous places in the Greek Scriptures where God is referred to as God without the preceding definite article.
They won't teach you that at Ministerial Training School!
This is not a reflection of what I believe but it is what the bible teaches.
just replace "god" with "alien" or "ectoplasm" and the whole text makes sense.
