Watchtower admits the KISS method works - Nov 1, 2011 WT, p. 24

by Alleymom 61 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Alleymom

  Erbie, post 32 --

  In the same breath that they acknowledge the backwards counting method works, they qualify that admission by saying it only works "if each king followed the other in the same year, without any breaks in between."
  
  And they tried their hardest in this article to cast doubt on the succession of the kings by talking about "discrepancies in the transition of one king to another." For instance, they cited scholar Ronald H. Sack to suggest that there was a problem in the transition between Amel-Marduk and Neriglissar. But the anomalous tablet they cite in footnote 9 actually shows an OVERLAP of some three months rather than a GAP between kings.

  We know there were no gaps between kings because we have tens of thousands of dated cuneiform tablets that cover each king of the neo-Babylonian period. We have the 6th century BCE equivalent of the piles of dated records and dated receipts in our 21st century desk drawers, filing cabinets, and purses; for instance, we have legal, administrative, and banking tablets, tablets with receipts for sales of property, purchases of grain, purchases of slaves, etc.

  In suggesting that there may be gaps in the transition from one king to the next, the Watchtower is turning its back on its own 1/1/1965 article, "The Rejoicing of the Wicked is Short Lived," in which they give the succession of the neo-Babylonian kings.

  If the 1965 WT article is correct, then there are no breaks between the kings.
  
  And if there are no breaks between the kings, then the Nov. 1, 2011 WT admits that 587 BCE is the correct date for the destruction of Jerusalem.
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  Diest

  Alleymom - FOR THE WIN. The WT BS Society, admits the key flaw in their argument...there is no proof of gaps in the records and they are talking about loosing 20 years to gaps when there was only 5 Kings in that time period....Do they really think that there was an average of four years of anarchy in Babylon for each new king? Especially when you had 2 kings that made up 40 years or rulership! They were able to replace one king within months according to WTS and worldly sources.

  This is exactally why I have NO FEAR of the Big A!
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  Alleymom

  Diest 246: Alleymom - FOR THE WIN. The WT BS Society, admits the key flaw in their argument...there is no proof of gaps in the records and they are talking about loosing 20 years to gaps when there was only 5 Kings in that time period....Do they really think that there was an average of four years of anarchy in Babylon for each new king? Especially when you had 2 kings that made up 40 years or rulership! They were able to replace one king within months according to WTS and worldly sources.

  Not only is there "no proof of gaps" ---- there is actually "proof of no gaps"!
  Eight years ago I posted the date of the last tablet from each king's reign and the date of the first tablet from the succeeding king.
  
  There are thousands upon thousands of dated business tablets providing a CONTINUOUS record of the period.
  
  The WT's illustration on page 23 of the Nov. 1, 2011 article ("THE BABYLONIAN CHRONICLES - A HISTORY WITH GAPS") will make the casual reader think, "Oh, my! GAPS! There are GAPS in the records! BAD records! "

  There are gaps of some years in the Babylonian Chronicles, but that is NOT the case in the thousands of Babylonian BUSINESS TABLETS. The thousands of dated business records provide a continuous orderly picture of the entire Neo-Babylonian period. The Chronicles and the business tablets are two different genres.
  
  (Note, I am not talking about tablets for every single day. But there are tablets for every year -- and in each year there are tablets for many days in virtually every month. There is a continuous record of business transactions listing the same people from the various great families, officials from the banking houses, etc. The tablets are dated and witnessed. It is possible to follow the careers and business activities of some of these people and groups -- this is called "prosopographical evidence.")
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  Atlantis

  Alleymom:

  You have a pm!

  Nevada
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  VM44

  "(Note, I am not talking about tablets for every single day. But there are tablets for every year -- and in each year there are tablets for many days in virtually every month. There is a continuous record of business transactions listing the same people from the various great families, officials from the banking houses, etc. The tablets are dated and witnessed. It is possible to follow the careers and business activities of some of these people and groups -- this is called "prosopographical evidence.")"

  Note that the article does NOT provide any references concerning the business records.

  Would The Watchtower have us believe that 20 years of banking records are missing for some reason from the Neo-Babylonian period?
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  Alleymom

  VM44: "Would The Watchtower have us believe that 20 years of banking records are missing for some reason from the Neo-Babylonian period?"
  
  My guess is that they fervently hope everyone will be so focused on the "gaps" in the Babylonian Chronicles and the supposed "discrepancies" in the transitions between kings that no one will stop to think or ask about the banking records and other business records.
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  bats in the belfry

  Alleymom > My guess is that they fervently hope everyone will be so focused on the "gaps" in the Babylonian Chronicles and the supposed "discrepancies" in the transitions between kings that no one will stop to think or ask about the banking records and other business records.

  By way of reminder:

  Business tablets:

  Thousands of contemporary Neo-Babylonian cuneiform tablets have been found that record simple business transactions, stating the year of the Babylonian king when the transaction occurred. Tablets of this sort have been found for all the years of reign for the known Neo-Babylonian kings in the accepted chronology of the period.

  From a secular viewpoint, such lines of evidence might seem to establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology with Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th year (and the destruction of Jerusalem) in 587/6 B.C.E. However, no historian can deny the possibility that the present picture of Babylonian history might be misleading or in error. It is known, for example, that ancient priests and kings sometimes altered records for their own purposes. Or, even if the discovered evidence is accurate, it might be misinterpreted by modern scholars or be incomplete so that yet undiscovered material could drastically alter the chronology of the period.

  Evidently realizing such facts, Professor Edward F. Campbell, Jr., introduced a chart, which included Neo-Babylonian chronology, with the caution: “It goes without saying that these lists are provisional. The more one studies the intricacies of the chronological problems in the ancient Near East, the less he is inclined to think of any presentation as final. For this reason, the term circa [about] could be used even more liberally than it is.”—The Bible and the Ancient Near East (1965 ed.), p. 281.

  Christians who believe the Bible have time and again found that its words stand the test of much criticism and have been proved accurate and reliable. They recognize that as the inspired Word of God it can be used as a measuring rod in evaluating secular history and views. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) For instance, though the Bible spoke of Belshazzar as ruler of Babylon, for centuries scholars were confused about him because no secular documents were available as to his existence, identity or position. Finally, however, archaeologists discovered secular records that confirmed the Bible. Yes, the Bible’s internal harmony and the care exercised by its writers, even in matters of chronology, recommends it so strongly to the Christian that he places its authority above that of the ever-changing opinions of secular historians.
  
  “Let Your Kingdom Come” (1981)
  kc p.187 Appendix to Chapter 14
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  punkofnice

  I had an interesting conversation with a JDub about this subject. Sadly, he decided the GB were right about 607 despite evidence from the WBT$ CDubRom.

  In the end he said he knows the GB make mistakes but the hope of everlasting life coupled with JWs not going to war was proof enough for him.

  I asked him about the UN NGO thing............................................................and...........NZ Human Rights Commission for comment.

  Anyway. The KISS method works for the watchtower when they don't want to explain themselves.

  Nice chart.
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  VM44

  The Appendix to "Let Your Kingdom Come" says:

  "the Christian that he places its [the Bible's] authority above that of the ever-changing opinions of secular historians."

  When was 586 B.C.E among the "ever-changing opinions of secular historians"?

  It appears that the writer of that Appendix changed what he was writing about in his concluding paragraph!
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  sizemik

  Are they preparing the way for back tracking?

  That would not surprise me at all . . .

  With the corner they've painted themselves into over 1914 . . . this will give them another twenty years of "the last days" to play with.

  I believe the changing blood doctrine is all part of a back-track also . . . gradually timed to minimise the effect of possible lawsuits.

  They're a business now . . . and planning to survive.

  Thanks for the post Alleymom.

  ED: I'm glad they're latching on to the KISS method 'cos they can kiss my . . .