Damn! I'm too late for the group hug. When I was a witness and see the list to identify a cult, I would say, "but there are reasons we do this." After I went to college and took critical thinking, it does become an issue of, ok, when does their BS reasoning stop? Is rational, logical thought really a tool of Satan? Hmmmmm......
Stressful Session with Uber-Zealous Parents--The Mermaid needs a hug!
by Cadellin 24 Replies latest jw experiences
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jamiebowers
Hugs and kisses! It's amazing how prents can make us feel like nruly children all over again. The next time, politely refuse to discuss anything Watchtower and change the subject.
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wizardca
Not to hijack the thread, but a hardline WT study this weekend explains the call from the JW family on wanting to come to me to "visit". Which they have never done. Sigh. I feel your pain Cadellin, but do like Flipper's advice. Will have to try it my self.
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White Dove
Puppy kisses for the mermaid
My dad desperately wants me to move in with him and Gramma, but I already know that every single day would be just like your post.
I wish you the very best of relationships with your family as is possible under the circumstances.
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JRK
Big hugs for the Mermaid!
Your post is very frustrating to me. I had the same issue when in University, but I had the double whammy of finding out about the UN/NGO scandal at about the same time. I almost was charged with plagiarism for quoting one of the Watchtower publications in a paper. I cited them correctly, but their lack of quoting honesty got me in hot water.
I still am very interested in the other story too. How does your elder husband fit in? Is he a wannabe fader too?
JK
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Scully
And then my dear father pulls out the ad hominen like crazy. Did I know that I sounded just like an apostate? What right did I have to expect the WT to comply to my own (tainted) academic standards? My example might seem off to an academic but those weren't the editorial standards the WT was required to adhere to. Did I know that there were many Ph.D.s in the "truth" who had no problem with this? Was I aware of how I had been tainted by the university atmosphere (see preceding para)? (Kind of a contradiction of the preceding query, but I didn't point that out)
I'm shaking my head, just dumbfounded by the twisted reasoning.
Just for fun, the next time your dad asks you what right you have to expect the WT to comply to standards of academic honesty, ask him how he'd feel about taking medication whose research methods, and empirical results were published to the same "standard" as the WT? For example, if we found out after years of administering chemotherapy and radiation to cancer patients, that the research was flawed and that those treatments actually hastened patients' deaths instead of ridding them of cancer? And what if it was further discovered that the companies producing chemotherapy treatments published those flawed or concocted results so that their bottom line wouldn't be affected?
Every time something like this is discovered, it makes news headlines all over the world because people have certain expectations of honesty from those they trust with their health - their lives. The GB claims to represent Jehovah God - should we not have even higher expectations of them, considering their claim to publish what god wants of those serving him? They claim the most authority and should likewise be expected to demonstrate the most accountability and honesty to the highest degree possible.
Or what if the Worldly™ standards for building homes, apartment buildings, shopping centers and skyscrapers were based on flawed research and flawed science? People invest so much in their homes, and trust that the people building them will adhere to safety standards and use the appropriate materials. But some contractors won't build to code to save money, and yet they will sell you a house claiming that it meets building code requirements. Ask him: Dad, what is the legal terminology for what this individual has done in selling you a home that doesn't meet code, knowingly cutting corners to maximize their profit, and putting your safety at risk, while claiming that all legal requirements have been met? If his answer is anything other than FRAUD, then he really doesn't get the principle of academic dishonesty. Because, essentially the academic dishonesty perpetrated by the WT is fraudulent behaviour - its goal is to twist the words of a scholarly work, using out-of-context quotes, ellipsis (...) to omit important words and meanings, and so on for the benefit of the person(s) perpetrating the academic dishonesty.
He may counter with an objection like "The Society™ has nothing to gain by doing this - so why would they bother?"
Of course they have something to gain!! Or more to the point, they have something they don't want to lose - their followers! Just like a cheating husband trying to explain away strange expenses, weird phone calls, late nights at the office and so on with false stories, the WT doesn't want to lose their followers or to be exposed as frauds. Think of the money they'd lose if everyone stopped donating. Think of the property they'd have to sell off to keep afloat. Think of the cushy lifestyle afforded to the GB and all the higher-ups in the Organization™ that couldn't be maintained without the base of followers that keeps financing them.
One of the first things the WT does in the Home Bible Study™ paradigm is to break a person's allegiance to their religion, by attacking the religion for neglecting to teach them that god's name is Jehovah, and for not teaching them about the bible's promise about Living Forever in Paradise on Earth™. It riles them up over dishonesty, and gets the person to a state of righteous indignation about being lied to by their church. And then, once they have the person in their clutches, they have to keep them in the cult by lying to them and being dishonest with them - practicing Theocratic Warfare™ on them.
The Insight volume, under the heading "LIE", claims that it is not necessary to divulge truthful information to those who are not entitled to it. Clearly, in practicing Theocratic Warfare™ against its own followers, the WTS doesn't even believe that its own followers are entitled to truthful information. I wonder how your father would feel about that?
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Cadellin
THanks everybody! I so appreciate your comments. It's a new day and I"m feeling way better. Scully, yeah, the reasoning is just crazy. The scary part is that on other non-WT subjects, my dad is so friggin' smart!! And when we get onto the WT, you can just see the cult mentality take over. It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
JRK: Well, I guess its not really a "story." My elder husband swings b/w being understanding and supportive to lapsing into cult-think (or non-think) like my father. One interesting moment came about a year after I'd become inactive. I was still going to Tues. night meetings. Near the end of the meeting, my husband had been up and about, like most elders are during meetings, and he came back to his seat and whispered in my ear, "As soon as the prayer ends, stand up and leave immediately." He wasn't joking either.
"Why?" I asked.
"The brothers want to talk to you. If one of them stops you before you get out the door, just be polite and tell them that they need to talk to me as head of the house. Don't worry." He was dead serious.
Of course, I BOLTED for the door as everyone was saying "Amen." My husband came out to the car about ten minutes later. He told me he'd talked to the other elders and said that he would prefer to handle the situation himself. I've never had any problems or questions from anyone since then. It's AWESOME. THat's why I say my fade has been easier than so many other folks. Who knew the stupid headship rule would actually come to my aid someday????
And though I get frustrated with my husband for his refusal to do any critical thinking when it comes to the WT, we have managed to negotiate a truce and keep our marriage afloat. For now, anyway.
((((((((((((((((( EVERYBODY ON THIS THREAD )))))))))))))))))
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Franklin Massey
Cadellin, I've had similar experiences with JW friends and family. It's largely based on perspective. In your example, the facts of the situation are: you went to college, developed better critical thinking and analysis skills, sharpened your mind, and learned the value of being skeptical. Your perspective on this is that it was a good experience because these basic skills will serve you well in your life. Your parent's perspective is that it was a bad experience because the Society was right: college corrupts the mind with "so-called" critical thinking and creates skeptics, not believers. Same situation, two ways of looking at it.
I've been in the middle of intense debates with JWs about various issues and suddenly realized, we agree on the facts, we're syaing the same things, it's just the application (perspective) that causes the division. What something means to me and what it means to a JW are two very different things.
So now, I just play dumb and try to avoid these types of discussions.
Oh, I almost forgot...*hugs*
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Mickey mouse
Anyway, it still left me feeling kind of lousy. So what do I do? My mother suggests "locking all my doubts in a room and just carrying on with Jehovah's organization, being part of the brotherhood and enjoying all the good things that the spiritual paradise offers."
That makes sense, as advice from someone in a cult.
My repl: "Yeah, but my conscience won't allow me to stand at someone's door and tell them that the human race has only been here for 6,000 years/we're in the time of the end and things have never been worse for the human race/ Noah's flood was for real/[fill in falsity of your choice]" She didn't have much to say in reply but it didn't matter b/c my father did most of the talking.
This is exactly what I'm planning to tell my mother because I have a situation coming up where she will expect me to go in field service with her. They don't know I've been inactive for 2 years (although I think they suspect it, hence this engineered 'opportunity' for field service).
I really feel for you.
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Scully
Anyway, it still left me feeling kind of lousy. So what do I do? My mother suggests "locking all my doubts in a room and just carrying on with Jehovah's organization, being part of the brotherhood and enjoying all the good things that the spiritual paradise offers."
Would they ever suggest "lock all your doubts in a room and just carry on with the Catholic Church, being part of the community and enjoying all the good things that the church does in the community" to someone whose door they'd just knocked on, who said they were having doubts about *their* church's teachings?