Does Jesus discredit himself?

by MrFreeze 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • MrFreeze

    Most people on this forum believe that the global flood never really occurred. That being said, Jesus references the flood of Noah's day. Wasn't Jesus around during that time period? Should he not know whether or not there was a global flood? If there wasn't a global flood, then Jesus either lied about it or believed it happened.

    Maybe you think he was just using the old fable as an illustration, well he certainly does not present it that way, like his other illustrations.

  • tec

    He would know whether there was a flood or not, regardless of what people think happened today.

    Could he have been referencing a story that could or could not have been literal, to make a point? Sure.

    Could the flood story be a simplistic telling of a more complicated event and truth - simplistic so that the people could grasp the moral inherent? Sort of like the way creation is described in a simple manner - there was light, there was earth, there was water, sun and stars, plants, animals, humans. There is no detail about matter/energy, evolution, adaptaion, etc. Just a simple telling that anyone can understand. If you have a lesson to relay to someone, then you will do so in the most simple way that they will understand.

    Could the flood story be literal? Sure. Not according to mainstream science right now, though. Or perhaps the timing is off. Or perhaps it was a localized flood turned into a greater myth. Or perhaps the story is far, far older, and the event did happen, but just earlier than the Israelites wrote and/or believed.

    So no, I don't think that He discredits Himself.



  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Which scripture makes it clear that Jesus knew/thought it was global?

    Jesus had been at the synagog learning the teachings of his era, so it isn't a great surprise that he knew the flood story

    I don't see him having a part to play in repatriating kiwis and koala bears after daddy god threw a wobbly and drowned all of them except two.

  • EntirelyPossible

    The global flood didn't occur. That being said, Jesus didn't say anything someone else said 2000 years before he was a twinkle is daddy god's eye.

    Really, why does it matter that Jesus, presuming he existed in the sense you are thinking of him, believed in it?

  • wobble

    We cannot know what "Jesus" actually said as the accounts that we have of his words, in the Gospels mainly, were written long after he spoke them, if he ever did, and by writers with an agenda. They too were schooled in Judaic myth, so would put such words in his mouth, displaying the limited knowledge of the time.

  • FreeAtLast1914

    I'm with Wobble on this one. The Gospels: written by followers decades after the events supposedly happened, then "copied" by the Catholic Church and in their sole possession for hundreds of years...

    There's more than enough room for reasonable doubt in that scenario.

  • HintOfLime

    To me a an interesting story is that of Satan leading Jesus up to a 'high place' where 'all the kingdoms of the world' could be seen (and asking for worship). As Jesus was supposed to be a literal, physical being - this cannot be a 'spirtual' or 'figurative' place - as Jesus would have no physical way of 'getting there'.

    Of course, there is nor was any literal place on earth where all kingdoms could be seen. Clearly the author did not understand the shape of the earth nor the principle of line-of-sight (if such a place existed, we could see it from all 'kingdoms' as well. China? What is China the ancient bible-author asks....).

    By adding that bit about leading Jesus up to a 'high place', the author sabotages the credibility of his story. If it isn't meant to be taken literally... if it didn't really happen - then why bother put it there in the first place? Certainly Jesus had seen all the kingdoms before from heaven, right?

    Clearly, the events described in this passage did not happen as they are presented, as there is no physical way they could have happened. Of course, when you look at it as being 'just a story', rather than 'events that actually happened here on Earth' - then it makes sense.

    - Lime

  • PSacramento

    Jesus does indeed reference the flood of Noah's day.

    As do many other sources that reference a flood in the geographical area that would have been Noah's.

    I don't recall Jesus saying that it was a GLOBAL flood, merely the flood in Noahs' time.

    Now, the thing is that even IF the flood is merely a story and never happened, it wouldn't be the first time that Jesus used a story or parabel to make a point - see the Prodigal Son story for example.

  • ProdigalSon

    Almost every ancient civilization had a flood "myth" for a reason.... but the Judaic Bible is very misleading. There was not one single deluge that was "global". There were many local floods that sunk continents and many smaller islands. The last one that finished off Atlantis seems to have occurred right around the time of the Bible's flood. There is even compelling evidence that it could have been as recent as 1200 BC. I was shocked when I learned how much hard evidence there is, not only of the existence and destruction of an advanced civilization in Atlantis, but also one in the Pacific called Lemuria.

    We would have some very great and useful knowledge of our past had it not been for the dark and selfish entities that have gotten control of our world through the control of money and concealed our history from us. What they do not want us to know is the power we have within our own consciousness to control our own destiny and create "Paradise" if we so choose. We have been enslaved to them and it is only our ignorance that keeps us in our predicament. The library at Alexandria alone could have given us a "Golden Age" long ago. It puts us at a major disadvantage, as you know the old saying, that those unaware of history are doomed to repeat it. It is critical for us to understand why these deluges occurred. We brought them upon ourselves with our greed and selfishness. Our conciousness (thoughts) are intricately connected with the forces that govern our world. The Catholic Church is mostly responsible for concealing this. Unbelievably, these dark and selfish entities would just love it if we destroyed our planet again.

    Fortunately, it appears that there is enough light shining in this world to finally overcome the repeated cataclysms and move forward into a higher dimension world. The last time we were able to progress we went from Neanderthal to Homo Sapiens. We thought we were "human", but it appears that these ancient civilizations were much more advanced than we are, both technologically and spiritually. I urge everyone to look into this for themselves. Look into the evidence for Atlantis and Lemuria. Because of the suppression of knowledge, we have been limited to approximately 3 percent of our human potential.

    What keeps coming up in my research is that they forsook following the Love-based "Law of One" principles and mankind became selfish and discompassionate. We lost sight of harmony and benevolance and instead started living in survival of the fittest mode. Basically, we lost touch with our souls.

    Once all this information is exposed, the virus that has infected mankind for 13,000 years, seriously limiting our free-will potential, will be flushed out and eradicated. I'll leave it up to your imaginations what we can do without it.

  • Bella15

    @ PSacramento - Like

    Jesus used parables and stories to "hide," or embed in them, code, the meaning of things. Whenever you read Jesus saying the word "like" in the bible pay attention and ask and ask and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning which will be usually found in the same bible. Remember the rule ... a little here ... a little there ... Isaiah 28 ...

    Sometimes I wonder of the time when I get a chance to hear from Jesus and learn how far off we were from the meaning of his parables or stories ... ... that's why in the meantime my focus is on DOING His commands ...

    Deuteronomy 29:29 says, “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.” ...

    Following His attitude, words, thoughts, and deeds—and doing it unapologetically, unwaveringly, fearlessly with His help.

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