by 00DAD 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • 00DAD


    I have been developing a list of WT doctrines/beliefs that are plainly in opposition to clear, simple scriptural teachings/ideas. These could be used to clarify important questions and address key Topics for Discussion. For example:

    - Should Christians hate sinners or only the sins they commit?

    • The Bible: "Continue showing mercy to others, … while YOU hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh." - Jude 23
    • The Watchtower: "In order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked." - The Watchtower July, 15, 1961, p.420

    - How should we view those with different beliefs than ours?

    • The Bible: Jesus said, "YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. - Matthew 5:43 - 45
    • The Watchtower: "More than that, we want to hate those who willfully show themselves haters of Jehovah, haters of what is good." - The Watchtower June 15, 1980, p.8
    • The Watchtower: "a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. " - The Watchtower October 1, 1993 p.19
    Your contributions are welcome!
  • leavingwt

    The problem with many religious, high-control groups is one of AUTHORITY, rather than a religious issue.

    Seven million people value the printed words of the Watchtower magazine, more than they value The Bible or their own conscience.

    The controlling force in their lives in the WT Bible & Tract Society and it's Governing Body. It's the ultimate authority for all things spiritual.

  • No Room For George
    No Room For George

    Treating those with different beliefs has always been a sore subject to me, even when I still believed there was something to the Watchtower. It's hard to imagine that Jehovah and His Son would be all too willing to completely obliterate the entire population of earth, minus the 7 million or so JWs. It's a ludicrous outlook, and I believe that many of the higher ups realize how skewed of a view it is too, but when the organization you represent at a high level, has been slandering all other faiths for the past half a century, its difficult to say the least to recant such a position. The leaders in this very human organization, simply don't have the humility to admit they've had a flawed perspective of other denominations, and a erroneously inflated opinion of themselves. There's a handful of scriptures that I believe, and notice I didn't say feel, but rather believe really highlight just how outragous the WT's view of themselves, and how they view other denominations.

    I. Genesis 18:20-33 is where the account of Abraham pleading on behalf of Sodom is recorded. God conceded to Abraham's plea that if only 10 righteous people would be found in Sodom, He would spare the city. You mean to tell me, that Jehovah is willing to destroy everyone on this planet minus the seven million people who put faith in a publishing company, all over minor differences in doctrine? Or because the other non-JWs, don't recognize that a religious publishing company isn't God's chosen representative especially when those claims of being chosen have flimsy at best support?

    Jonah's dealing with the city of Ninevah fit in harmony with this point as well. Judaism was established when Jonah prophesied, which was not the case when Abraham pleaded on behalf of Sodom. Still, because the Ninevites, who were Assyrians by the way, repented of their wicked ways, not necessarily converting to the same specific, exact worship that the Hebrews were dedicated to, Jehovah still spared the city for another 40 years. Again I have to ask why did the Ninevites get a pass, why could Sodom have gotten a pass? You mean to tell me that God is so unrighteous as to be completely oblivious to what good works people do on behalf of His name, and His Son, that HE will still destroy them all, because those people didn't recognize that a publishing originally from Pennsylvania, was His chosen representatives since 1919? Ummmmkayyyyy.......That's senseless, and contradicts Hebrews 6:10 where it says that God is not so unjust so as to forget your works.

    II. Matthew 7:1-3 is where Jesus warned his disciples about judging others. As Christians, its our duty to assist others spiritually, and practically where we can. It's not our place to judge who's got the best chance at gaining salvation, or who's the greatest as we're not in competition with other faiths. There's some people on this message board who I believe are absolutely nuts, and have made some really outlandish claims about themselves, but who am I to question them? Who am I to question if God doesn't really communicate to them? More power to them if what they speak is truth!! Sometimes I get the feeling the WT has a chip on their shoulder as if they've been given the label of Addidas, but they felt that they were really Nike the whole time. That mentality is something left over from Rutherford's era, and it still exists today. While the WT is printing literature condemning everyone on the planet including JWs for not doing enough, other organizations are actually out there doing practical works, and providing spiritual encouragement and are not even concerned about the WT, or JWs.

    It's sad when you think about it because the WT loves to pat itself on the back and say, "We're the only ones preaching the good news of the Kingdom!" I have to ask then, how come nobody knows anything about JWs other than what they don't celebrate, and that they bother people on Saturday mornings? Harold Camping in a matter of months brought more attention to his own warped message, than the WT has accomplished in almost a century. I get the feeling sometimes that they're not really concerned with people's lives. If they were, they'd really push the message, and use everything at their disposal to accomplish getting the word out, instead of taking potshots at all the other faiths.

    While we're on the subject of taking potshots at other faiths, Mark 9:38-40 is ringing in my head like a cowbell. That's the account of the disciples complaining because there was another unnamed individual who was driving out demons in Jesus' name. Jesus rebuked them, and told them that anyone who's not against them, is for them, and on top of that..........anyone who gives His disciples a cup of water because they belong to the Messiah, will certainly not lose their reward. Between that, and Jesus correcting his disciples over having inflated views of themselves and being competative with one another over their spots in the Kingdom, I have to say that the WT's competative spirit with other religions is deeply disturbing to me.

    If the meetings and the literature is about spiritual food at the proper time, and encouragement, then why does the literature have so many articles reminding us who's the so called Faithful and Discreet Slave? Why are there so many articles criticizing other denominations? When I want and need encouragement, the last person I need to be around is a negative person who can't see anything good in anybody else. That same personality type that most people avoid, unless misery loves company, is prevelant in the Watchtower's literature. They see no good in anybody, its all bad, all the time. On top of that, it really messes with your head when a nonJW does something good on your behalf. Depending on how indoctrinated you might be, for some I imagine its like finding out blood isn't exactly red when its in you're body.

  • sizemik

    - Should Christians hate sinners or only the sins they commit?

    Undoubtedly the Biblical stance is to hate badness . . . not people. Especially was this reinforced by the teachings of Christ, who even acknowledeged . . . "you heard it was said . . . but I say to you . . . " as you quoted from Matt 5. Essentially he was correcting them for a wrong viewpoint . . . and quite emphatically at that. A wrong viewpoint that had developed as a result of "organisation" and a legalistic approach . . . in his day manifested by the Pharisaic application of Mosaic law.

    The WT$ has effectively undone the corrections Christ made and reverted back to the things he felt needed to be corrected. Interestingly, it has resulted in the same Pharisaic structure that Christ himself attempted to break down. In this respect they have proved to be the "antichrist" . . . no question.

  • Terry

    I once worked in a high tension sales job as an art salesman in a Beverly Hills gallery.

    My chief competitor was a fellow named Mike who was always the top sales associate who took no prisoners competitively.

    It soon became clear I was going to give him some problems and he ramped up his efforts.

    The gallery owner took me aside one day and explained Mike to me.

    "There are two kinds of competitors, Terry. Those who run faster and those who trip others. Mike chooses to trip others."

    This was true enlightenment to me!

    I realized how often Mike undercut me, took my customers, bad-mouthed me and went behind my back to steal sales.

    I confronted him about it and we later became good friends.

    I think this is the Watchtower mentality and always has been: Trip your competitor, bad-mouth them, hate them.

  • dm6
    The WT$ has effectively undone the corrections Christ made and reverted back to the things he felt needed to be corrected. Interestingly, it has resulted in the same Pharisaic structure that Christ himself attempted to break down. In this respect they have proved to be the "antichrist" . . . no question.

    Sizemik - wow. nicely said there bro.

    I like you ending on that, the antichrist. Check out 2nd John 1:7 and tell me that doesn't relate to the WT$/JWs

  • sd-7

    The Bible: "For all who are led by God's spirit, these are God's sons."--Rom. 8:14

    The Watchtower: Only 144,000 are actually God's sons. Anyone else is God's 'friend' like Abraham and does not become one of God's children until after the Thousand Year Reign of Jesus.

    This is a simple example--the WT says that because this was written to the Romans in the first century, it therefore applies only to them. Yet the writer did not say that 144,000 who are led by God's spirit are God's sons; he said ALL who are led by God's spirit are God's sons. The audience isn't relevant; ALL is ALL. If all doesn't really mean all, and the WT is correct, then Paul is lying and has written falsehood. There's nothing in scripture to indicate that people would suddenly stop being led by God's spirit after the first century and for 1,800 years after that, only for a handful of guys in Brooklyn to suddenly be led by it and reserve it and the understanding of the Bible to themselves.

    The Bible: "The gift God gives is everlasting life by Jesus Christ our Lord."--Rom. 6:23

    The Watchtower: Everlasting life is something our works make us worthy of--faith in Jesus is not enough if not demonstrated by 5 meetings a week, 10+ hours a month in ministry, and obedience to/acceptance of all teachings coming from the Governing Body.

    The Bible: "Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son."--1 John 2:22

    The Watchtower: Anyone who rejects the Governing Body as 'God's channel of communication' is the antichrist. Thus, the Governing Body's teachings are = Jesus Christ by implication.

    The Bible: "But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man."--1 Cor. 5:11

    The Watchtower: A number of offenses not mentioned in scripture are subject to this verse, including rejecting any of the Society's teachings, smoking (heck, even farming the tobacco plant), working on or in a church building, celebrating birthdays/holidays, accepting a blood transfusion, talking to someone who has been expelled, having oral sex with your marriage mate (if you make it public), even being accused of wrong based on circumstantial evidence or hearsay. Star chamber trials, unlike the person in 1 Corinthians 5, whose conduct was public knowledge and whose conduct was addressed before the entire congregation with Paul's letter, make sure that only those in 'authority' hear the evidence and see the person's attitude towards his actions.

    The Bible: "But as for the cowards and those without faith....and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death."--Rev. 21:8

    The Watchtower: It's okay to lie to the public, misrepresent one's own history or beliefs for the sake of recruitment or to protect the organization from the government. 'Theocratic warfare'.

    The Bible: "And I saw...a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads...and no falsehood was found in their mouths; they are without blemish."--Rev. 14:1-5

    The Watchtower: 144,000 engage in false prophesying and even outright lying about their own history. They sanction dishonesty as a means to an end. Examples: 1925, 1975, 'this generation', jw-media.org, Public Edition WT.

    The Bible: "Nebuchadnezzar the king, to all the peoples, national groups and languages that are dwellingin all the earth:...The signs and wonders that the Most High God has performed with me, it has seemed good to me to declare. How grand his signs are, and how m ight his wonders are! His kingdom is a kingdom to time indefinite, and his rulership is for generation after generation."--Daniel 4:1-3

    The Watchtower: God's kingdom and rulership were interrupted in 607 B.C.E. God's rulership over the earth was trampled by human governments for 2,520 years. (Apparently in contradiction of the entire point of God's humiliating Nebuchadnezzar in the first place....)

    The Bible: "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so! Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings."--Matt. 24:45-47

    The Watchtower: The master appoints the slave over both his domestics and his belongings at his invisible presence, and then appoints the slave over all the earth upon his arrival. Slave is rewarded on the basis of declaring practically any message, even if that message isn't even considered remotely true today. This is not an illustration about the need for spiritual alertness, but a prophecy fulfilled in 1919.

    The Bible: "Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Barnabas."--Acts 15:22.

    "Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead...But when God...thought good to reveal his Son in connection with me, that I might declare the good news about him to the nations, I did not go at once into conference with flesh and blood. Neither did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles previous to me, but I went off into Arabia, and I came back again to Damascus...for He who gave Peter powers necessary for an apostleship to those who are circumcised gave powers also to me for those who are of the nations."--Gal. 1:1-2:10.

    The Watchtower: Acts 15 shows a 'governing body' meeting together to make decisions for the entire Christian congregation. Pictures frequently depict a group of 12-15 men in a private room preparing to make a decision, when a 'multitude' and the 'whole congregation' are spoken of as being present for this occasion. They also teach that this governing body had to approve Paul as a governing body member, yet Paul says he received his authority straight from God and Christ.

    Wish I had references handy to go with these, but I hope that's useful...


  • sd-7

    The Bible: "One man judges one day as above another; another man judges one day as all others; let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day observes it to the Lord. Also, he who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who does not eat does not each to the Lord, and yet gives thanks to God."

    The Watchtower: Because wicked people observe a particular day, like the day of their birth, it is therefore wrong by association. Revelries are associated with birthdays, yet one could choose to have a party where no unrestrained drinking and merrymaking took place. It arbitrarily decides which pagan traditions are to be overlooked and which are to be condemned as wrong, thus using the personal conscience of a few men to dictate how millions should feel about certain days and occasions. Christians could easily view the day of their birth as an occasion to give thanks to and honor Jehovah for giving them life and letting them live another year, rather than get drunk and/or behead their friends/enemies/whoever. Unlikely anyone prays to Zeus or whoever when they blow out their candles or eat their cake. Ugggh...


  • PSacramento

    The WTBTS is an organized religious organization and as such, they have their own unique doctrines based on how THEY interpret their holy scriptures.

    Pretty much like any other organized religion.

    If one finds their teachinng contridictory to their own holy scriptures one has a choice:

    Leave or point out the issues.

    Like any other organization.

    If people are content in what they are being taught, then they are content.

    Those who are not have a duty to themselves to voice such lack of contentment.

    The simple fact is that the truth about the WT doctrines is right there in front of all those JW's, if only soem choose to see it then, that is how it is.

  • james_woods

    "a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word)

    How could there be a "Biblical" sense to the word hate - isn't hate just plain and simple hate?

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