Fury after reading Watchtower article for this week

by Eclectic 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Eclectic

  I hope I do not repeat thread. Paragraph 15, w2011 6/15 p. 23 states:

  Paul set a fine example for Christian elders. Though he was an apostle and could have been “an expensive burden” on Christians in Thessalonica, he did not “eat food from anyone free.” Rather, he ‘labored and toiled night and day.’ (2 Thess. 3:8) Many present-day elders, including those who are in the traveling work, set a fine example in this regard. Although they accept hospitality from fellow believers, they do not “put an expensive burden” upon anyone.—1 Thess. 2:9.

  I wonder when Circuit Overseers ceased to be a burden since proclaimers pay everything they need and at what company they work night and day not to eat for free. Note it is written "many [...] elders" and not "every [...] elder"...

  What do you think about it? Are elders or CO acting as Paul did?
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  Chariklo

  Are elders or CO acting as Paul did?

  It's not the answer I suspect you're hoping for but from my observation, yes, very definitely, they are.

  This is one of the things I notice here. Many posters write from what I'm sure is their own direct experience of abuses and appallingly hypocritical behaviour by elders.

  Yet my admittedly limited and recent experience of them is exactly the opposite. I can't fault them. In spite of individual human imperfections, I can't fault the conduct of the local congregation in general.

  Nor can I find the hypocrisy and abuses of privilege written about here in any of the congregations of which I have direct knowledge in my area. Believe me, I've looked. I observe.

  So all I can say is, I can only speak as I find, but I must say that for the sake of honesty and balance. A closed mind set in negative mode would be just as bad as relgious indoctrination, don't you think?
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  Eclectic

  @Chariklo

  I appreciate your comment. I agree with you, elders are generally good people and act the best they can. I also realized that around me. However, that paragraph discusses about elders (including CO) being a burden (economic). Paul worked because he didn't want to be a burden on first-century christians. I think, maybe you can tell me if I am wrong, COs are actually a burden, because all their fees are paid (by society which is maintained by proclaimers, at least we are told so) and they do no extra job as Paul did. For instance, since several years proclaimers pay their cars. Do you understand the point I am stressing?
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  NewChapter

  I agree local elders have never been a financial burden for me. On the contrary, they often cover many costs from their own pockets. The CO's however---they are fully supported by the congregations. I believe they take something like a vow of poverty in that they agree not to seek outside employment so that they work for the org full time. I have heard of CO's getting into the game a bit late, after they've already got some wealth, and have chosen to be self supporting.

  In the org, if you want to be a CO, there is no option but to be supported by the congregations---unless they are already independently wealthy.

  NC
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  chickpea

  i had a then, PO, tell me that elders were worthy of double honor...
  when i looked it up in the "all scripture is inspired" volumes, at his
  suggestion, it referred to the financial support of said elders by
  those they "serve"

  1 timothy 5:17
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  Band on the Run

  This past week I listened to Teaching Company CDs by Bart Ehrman on Early Christianity. He discussed how Jewish Jesus and the apostles were. Gentile followers were rare at Jesus' death yet within about only 20-30 years, Judaism and Christianity were at utter war. Christians took over Jewish scripture and declared it only prophesied Jesus and was now dead. The disputes were not civil.

  This bit leaped out at me. He said Christianity never had converts by the hundreds or thousands at a time. Using Paul as an example of how Christianity spread, Erman said Paul set up businesses in his missions that would attract people to the ventures. Paul's business clients came to talk about business and Paul could leap to Christianity from there. He feels Paul was low key but persuasive. The word of mouth was excellent. Paul was preaching but not thumping and screaming.

  He went through the numbers. Starting with a rather small group and a conservative addition each year, word of mouth alone would result in the numbers historians report by certain milestone years. It had legs.

  I don't know his sources as I was listening rather than reading. It makes sense to me. Elaine Pagels also reported that Christianity had excellent word of mouth concerning staying to take care of any ill during plagues. Of course, they committed incest, killed infants, and committed canibalism in the early rumors.

  Just an observation concerning Paul, earning money.

  Do local KHs have liabillity insurance for elders? Do elders have it personally?
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  Mad Sweeney

  Chariklo, circuit overseers have NO JOB. They do not buy their meals. They do not buy their cars. They do not buy their insurance. They do not pay rent or mortgage for their homes/apartments. They go out in service, give talks, counsel the elders, and fill out paperwork for the Borg. They are supported by the people they are supposedly shepherding. It is nothing like what Paul did. AT ALL.
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  cameo-d

  Band on the run: "Using Paul as an example of how Christianity spread, Erman said Paul set up businesses in his missions that would attract people to the ventures. Paul's business clients came to talk about business and Paul could leap to Christianity from there. He feels Paul was low key but persuasive. The word of mouth was excellent. Paul was preaching but not thumping and screaming."

  Paul's "business" was that he was a tentmaker. Tentmaker is one who makes prayer shawls. "Tent" is a large head covering. Paul used religion as a lucrative business, much like these dingos that sell prayer cloths and holy candles and other such junk.
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  Chariklo

  @Eclectic

  Yes, I do see the point you're raising about CO's. To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about this, except that the CO's, and the DO I know, are in fact absolutely lovely people, really nice, really spiritual.

  I'll muse on it during the day and come back to you.
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  Eclectic

  @cameo-d

  That's interesting. Are you quoting Bart Ehrman? Could you tell me the reference? The WT portrays him making tents, like camping tents. You are refering to tallit (jewish prayer shawl) if I am not wrong. And it is Paul who banned using head-covering for praying in 1 Corinthians 11:4 ( Every man that prays or prophesies having something on his head shames his head;) and 11:7 ( For a man ought not to have his head covered, as he is God’s image and glory; but the woman is man’s glory.).