Universal Sovereignty

by dontplaceliterature 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • dontplaceliterature

    First, a bit of background:

    I was recently in a discussion about the possibility of life outside of Earth, on distant planets with two Jehovah's Witness friends of mine. Both seemed skeptical. Logic says that if the Universe is infinitely expanding, and THERE IS a Creator/Intelligent Being behind all of this, then why stop with just life on one planet? Why would an eternal God not create an abundance of life on other planets? Surely, if James Cameron and George Lucas can dream up new planets and new life forms, the Almighty of The Universe can!

    I began to speculate with these two that perhaps life had existed for eons on other planets in the Universe, and so God didn't destroy humans because he is aware of our potential. Perhaps there is a parallel race of humans/intelligent life that did not disobey his command?

    I find it odd that both of these men refused to entertain the idea, especially since it does not conflict with The Bible. Just because The Bible doesn't mention it, doesn't mean it isn't true -- like many other things The Bible doesn't mention (i.e. The Dinosaurs).

    Both argued that the Earth would be of the upmost importance to God because this is where the issue of Universal Soverignty is being settled.

    Now on to my main point:

    I find it interesting that this catch phrase is thrown around by Jehovah's Witnesses SO MUCH. The words Universe or Universal are not even in The Bible. The idea of Universal Soverignty a la the Job account is totally fabricated by the organization. The Bible does not say that this is the direct reason that humanity continues to suffer. It's only a guess, AT BEST.

    I had never really thought about it until now, but found it funny that a discussion about alien life would lead me to such a conclusion. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have probably bet on the fact that the words "Universal Soverignty" were written somewhere in The Bible.


  • designs

    Earth centered Solar System- Its an old Thought from Christianity that was finally buried by Science in the 1700s. Once they could map distant Galaxies and knew some were over 400,000,000 miles away it was Game Over for any theological concepts of God settleing things here on earth and no life elsewhere.

    Charles Russell clung to the old notion that God was 'located' within the universe well into the 1900s.

  • moshe

    Our poor Earth must have been the only place where God's creation messed up. Surely God got it right on the next planet in the next galaxy.

  • AGuest
    Both argued that the Earth would be of the upmost importance to God because this is where the issue of Universal Soverignty is being settled. ... The idea of Universal Soverignty a la the Job account is totally fabricated by the organization. The Bible does not say that this is the direct reason that humanity continues to suffer. It's only a guess, AT BEST.

    See, this is one of the things I LOVE about Jehovahs-Witnesses (peace to you, dear DPL!): they don't even keep up with their own "new light." I remember when this issue was dropped some time ago, when I was still in. Because someone wrote in to the "Questions from Readers." Universal sovereignty of the Most Holy One of Israel... was NEVER an issue; it can never BE an issue - He IS the universal sovereign and the account in Job SHOWS that even the Adversary recognized this (which is why he came and took HIS "station" before that One... like all the others did).

    The account in Job isn't about universal sovereignty - it is about our INDIVIDUAL faith and integrity. God's sovereignty was NEVER challenged - in Eden or in the Job account. What WAS challenged is YOUR faith and integrity... and mine. The challenge was STATED:

    "Skin in behalf of skin and ALL that a man has he WILL give on behalf of HIS flesh."

    Thus, the Most Holy One of Israel was challenged to "thrust out your hand, for a change, and touch all the way to his bone... and see if he will not curse you to your face." And He accepted this challenge... with the exception that He allowed the Adversary to thrust out HIS hand... and touch Job... and us.

    But the challenge didn't end there: it extended to US - what WOULD we do if we did not have a hedge... protection and prosperity... from God around us? WOULD we curse Him to His face? Job proved that SOME of us would not. He wife showed that some of us WOULD. The "issue" then, is what will YOU do... YOU... not God or anyone else.

    Universal sovereignty has never been an issue between God and man. Nor is it an issue to settled for the angels/spirit beings. If there is such an issue... it would be between the True God... and those gods that are false. Since the latter are false... again... no issue of sovereignty (as something false can't BE sovereign as to something TRUE).

    Tell these folks to go back and research what they "believe". Because while they may not have blown a trumpet about it at the time... someone pointed out to them... and the WTBTS acknowledged... that universal sovereignty could NEVER be an issue. Tell them to check the "Questions From Readers" circa 1990-1997.

    Again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,


  • designs

    God is God, kind of a new concept for the Witnesses eh Shelby...

  • AGuest

    You got it, dear designs (the greatest of love and peace to you!). Took 'em forever to figure that out... and only because someone pointed out the utter ridiculous of their "universal sovereignty" theory. Again, though, they haven't gone around blowing a horn about THAT particular piece of "light". Because "universal sovereignty" is one of the sets of buzzwords they use to perpetuate their lies. Can't have folks KNOWING they don't know what the hell, can they?

    Ah, well...

    Peace, chile!

    A slave of Christ,


  • blondie

    This took my mind in a different direction, universe, what has the WTS taught about how and whether God dwells in the universe, physical or spirit.

    For years until 1953 with a QFR the WTS taught that God dwelt in the Pleiades.

    And then:

    *** w53 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers ***Incidentally, Pleiades can no longer be considered the center of the universe and it would be unwise for us to try to fix God’s throne as being at a particular spot in the universe.

    So if God's throne is not at any "particular spot in the universe" that means he is everywhere or outside the universe.

    Does the WTS teach that God is omnipresent?

    *** it-1 p. 969 God ***The true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location. (1Ki 8:49; Joh 16:28; Heb 9:24)

    So God lives outside the universe.

    *** g05 3/8 p. 20 Is God Everywhere? ***"God is a Spirit," says the Bible. (John 4:24) Therefore, he resides in a spiritual realm independent of the physical universe.

  • designs

    It sounds like the Society was trying to get their head around multiple Dimensions.

  • moshe

    Thanks Blondie- the writing department isn't going to try and come up a better answer and JWs aren't exactly clamoring for it either.

  • Borgia

    Universal souvereignity is a moot point. Genesis 11 throroughly finishes the idea of such a thing even existing. If man cannot achieve all it has put it's sights on, there is no real challenge to universal souvereignity, is there?

    The issue as described in Daniel 4 about the tree, has nothing to do with UNIVERAL souvereignity but with GLOBAL dominion in the kingdom of mankind. The witnesses fail to read what it says ...But what's new there ...

    It's sort of like: Don't steal; the government hates competition.



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