by leavingwt 20 Replies latest jw friends
In Catholicism, with repentance and confession, grave sins are forgiven. This is nothing new.
Church Extends Authority to Absolve Sin of Abortion for Papal Visit
The headline is misleading. This is not an extension of authority. It is a reiteration.
The media never reports news regarding Catholicism accurately.
If someone is repentant for committing an abortion, they can go to their bishop, or their priest, and receive absolution.
I will never understand why ex-jw's have this need to make fun of other religions, while they were part of one of the wackiest most ridiculous religions on the planet.
Does this somehow take the stigma away that you were in a cult?
Dear lord, go talk to a Catholic and see what they are like. They are nowhere near the fucking nitwits you had as 'friends'.
Or do you still believe what the WTBTS said about the Catholic Church? Get that crap out of your head once and for all!
Only today! Save yourself! Come back into the fold and we'll make believe you never did what we told you not to do!
Catholic excommunication does not mean you are kicked out of the Church and barred from attending or associating. It isn't like JW shunning.
It means you aren't supposed to receive communion, that is why it is called excommunication.
In practice, no one is watching you to make sure you don't receive communion anyway. Most Catholic churches around here are so packed on Sunday that they couldn't do it if they wanted to. It is on the person to enforce their own excommunication if they aren't in a state of grace. If they receive the eucharist in a state of grave sin (and disrespect it thereby), they will have to take it up with Jesus later.
From the linked article: "... the Vatican often extends authority to absolve certain sins and to lift excommunications at big papal events." There is no "new light" involved, only procedural adjustment to meet a temporary need.
Lifting excommunication is normally the purview of the local bishop, but they are empowered to delegate that function to other priests of their diocese. The special situation in Madrid is that other clergy, who are not under authority of the Madrid diocese, will be on duty during World Youth Day. Considering the size of the crowds at that event, the local bishop and priests couldn't possibly meet the demand so they're having visiting clergy help out. That's a very brief summary; read more about this on Fr. Z's blog (about one page down) if you're interested.
While I am in general agreement with Shamus, strongly saying that I mean no offense to JW's, I see this as a former devout Catholic who was never a JW. Not that I'm in favor of abortion in general, but I do dislike the fact that the "rules" are being toyed with. We don't like you to have an abortion, but, if you attend this meeting where I will happen to be, then you'll be forgiven. How come a woman who had an abortion in say, Argentina, but never went to the World day, would not get the same treatment?
I see this as an example of the extent to which these rules are only man made. If you think all abortions are wrong, and you claim your God told you that, then stick to that line no matter what. Otherwise, recognize your God didn't tell you that.
I do dislike the fact that the "rules" are being toyed with.
The only rule involved is Exodus 20:13. That has not been changed. The only difference is an administrative adjustment to accommodate the expected surge of penitents, nothing more.
How come a woman who had an abortion in say, Argentina, but never went to the World day, would not get the same treatment?
She could get the same treatment at home: confession at any Catholic church she chooses for forgiveness of the sin, and lifting of the automatic excommunication for securing an abortion from the local bishop or from any priest to whom the bishop delegated that authority. The only "news" in Madrid is that hundreds of visiting priests have received that delegation for the duration of the event, to accommodate the great crowd present at the event.
How will this impact the assault on Roe v Wade
During my illness, I became close to Madeleine L'Engle b/c she did a lay ministry. Because her book, A Wrinkle in Time, was so well-known and nice, the State Department sent her abroad. Many churches, not Episcopal, paid her honorariums to give sermons. I told her how I telephoned the major Catholic cathedral in NY to ask about attending a healing service. The priest told me not to come. Yet Woodstock Jesuit Seminary was in the neighborhood and gave frequent sermons and celebrate communion in the Anglican Cathedral. They, in turn, received communion from the Episcopal priests. I saw Dan Berrigan do this many times.
Madeleine told me she always receives communion in Catholic churches. She said I should not have asked for permission. Her reasoning was that most priests would want to give it but when cornered with such a direct question against official policy would have to say no to protect themselves. I received communion in large Catholic and Orthodox churches where I knew no one.
When I moved near by sister, I did not want to be alone at Christmas. She is now Catholic. I felt very awkward but I wanted to receive communion. Despite all my beliefs about communion being between my self and God, it took so much effort to go up. My teen age nephew saw me out of the corner of his eye. Once he realized what I was doing, I swear his eyes popped out. I thought he would scream out load to stop communion. He was silent. Afterwards, it was so obvious he wanted to discuss it and was told not do if he wanted to live.
The biggest rule I've heard in every Episcopal church is never to deny communion, no matter what. If Adi Amin shows up with Hitler and Mao, they are graciously given communion. God will deal with it. I wonder if there is something in the nature of the sacrements that there is such a different in policy. I would be curious what Catholics here think about it. Maybe I was wrong. My JW time leads me to act like a small kid about rules and their overall importance. Part of my mind is so sophisticated and cosmpolitan and the other part is rules, rules, deference, deference.
What's up with the Pope, now? Is he Jewish? What's with the yarmulke Jewish hat?
The Pope (Governing Body) speaks for God (Jehovah God). As such, they and their priests (elders) can absolve sins or excommunicate (disfellowship) one.
So, folks, what we have here are two sides of the same coin.
