Even the Bible doesn't say that the world is about to end..

by The Quiet One 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • soft+gentle
    soft+gentle

    the quiet one

    Soft+gentle- What truth do jw's have, specifically?

    To Jehovahs witnesses all of their beliefs are truth. You ask for something specific. well what we have been discussing is quite specific so I need go no further than this topic to make my point. For me part of recognising that they have truth is that I can show a respectful attitude to them instead of a wholely antagonistic attitude and this is where I am coming from. If I am with them I can relax and enjoy myself along with them remaining objective but alert to their sense of value and purpose and to their sense of the end being imminent.

  • soft+gentle
    soft+gentle

    psac

    Here Jesus warns not only about WHEN the fall of Jerusalem will happen ( within this generation) BUT that even heaven and earth will pass away BUT about THAT, only GOd knows.

    sorry I cannot see this in the context of the verses nor do scholars who have examined the section in detail. Jesus was using hyperbole when he said "heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away".

  • d
    d

    revelation was written during the fall of Rome.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    sorry I cannot see this in the context of the verses nor do scholars who have examined the section in detail. Jesus was using hyperbole when he said "heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away".

    It's perfectly fine for you not to agree with my view, it's a free forum ;)

    But Ithink you may have missed my point.

    MY point was that:

    The beginning part dealt with the fall of Jerusalem ( Jesus commented that it would fall and his apostles asked him when, to which he gave them the signs to look for and what would happen) and the concluding part is Jesus commentating on that only God knows the ENd of TIMES.

    As per ACTS Chapter 1:

    6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

    Jesus makes it clear that, in regards to his second coming and the restoration, that it is NOT for anyone to know.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    revelation was written during the fall of Rome.

    Revelation was written in the later half of the 1st century, perhaps early second at the latest and the Roman Empire fell centuries AFTER that.

  • soft+gentle
    soft+gentle

    psac I think we are both missing each other's points but as you said its okay ;)

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I understand that your point was that when Jesus said "heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away", he was using hyperbole, and I agree.

    I was adressing the comment that Jesus did give as "sign posts" as to when the End will come and that they were the ones mentioned in Matther ( and Luke, etc).

    But if you feel there was a "blueprint" like you stated, I would love to see your point.

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Soft+gentle said: 'For me part of recognising that they have truth is that I can show a respectful attitude to them instead of a wholely antagonistic attitude and this is where I am coming from.'-- I don't undestand what you mean by this? Probably just me.. If I have come across as antagonistic, I sincerely apologise. ALL I'm doing here is trying to present evidence that the Bible's end-time prophecies might have already been fulfilled.. With regard to jws having the truth, you might find this page interesting. http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-1914.php @d-- As to the dating of Revelation, there's plenty of internal evidence that it was written before 70 ce, and the little evidence I'm aware of that it was written in 96 ce can be disproven. Not being a scholar, I'm not saying that it WAS written at a particular time, but if you are open-minded enough to look at opposing evidence... http://ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html http://www.matthewmcgee.org/7church.html

  • soft+gentle
    soft+gentle

    the quiet one, I was writing about my own wholely antagonistic attitude - my own attittude has changed to one of respect.

    I was saying that matthew's gospel was written after 70 Ce in my post no 13. Rev I think was written even later. what internal evidence do you have that rev was written earlier than 70 ce?

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Soft+gentle- I recommend reading the first link that I posted as to the evidence, particularly under the Time Element heading, but here's one of the highlights: 'In Revelation 22:10, the angel of the Lord said to John, "Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand ." Once more, we have proof that the events of Revelation were about to take place in the first century. However, another element was added to this warning. The angel told John not to seal the Scroll. Why is this important? To answer that, let's look at the book of Daniel. After Daniel had received visions concerning his people (the nationof Israel), he was told, "thy peopleshall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book" (12:1). Daniel is then told how they would be rescued — byresurrection, some would be rewarded with "everlasting life" and others with "everlasting contempt" (verse 2). But then, Daniel is told something very peculiar. In verse 4, Daniel was told, "shut up the words, and sealthe book, even to the time of the end." Please note that this verse says the "time of the end", and not "the end of time". There is a huge difference between the endof time and the time of the end. Now, we must ask "Whose time of the end?" Verse 1 told us that Daniel's visions concerned the nation of Israel, not mankind in general. Next, Daniel saw two angels talking about the fulfillment of all that he had seen (verse 6). One asked the other, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" The answer was, "when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (verse 7). But Daniel could not understand what they meant, so he asked again, "When?" The angel answered "Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." Now that we have looked atthis passage, how does it relate to Revelation 21? Did you know that there is only one other place in the Bible where a sealed book is referred to? Revelation, chapter 5. How Daniel relates to Revelation is thatRevelation is the opening of Daniel's sealed book!! Remember,Daniel's visions were concerning the "time of the end" of Israel, and Revelation is about God's judgment on Israel. They are one and the same. The reason this has direct bearing on Revelation 21, is that Daniel was told to seal his book concerning the end "for it pertains to many days in the future " (Dan.8:26), but John was told not to seal his book "becausethe time is at hand " (Revelation 22:10). The end of Old Covenant Israel was at hand. All things written had to be fulfilled by the time Jerusalem fell in AD 70 (see Luke 21:20-22). Therefore, since Revelation is the opening of Daniel, then it must have been fulfilled by the summer of AD 70.'

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