Steve2- Thanks for the advice! Wobble- Feel free to play devils advocate if you like, but seeing as its my thread, if I start making arguments against my own claim, it would be like I was sat here talking to myself. It's for others to present evidence to the contrary.. Roddy- What evidence can you show me? Do you have any that isn't symbolic or clearly directed to people centuries ago? Pistoff- I might agree, but this thread is aimed at those who believe in the Bible and think the world is going to end at any moment..
Even the Bible doesn't say that the world is about to end..
by The Quiet One 42 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Tyre
@quite one
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth. For the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. And the sea no longer is.
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The Quiet One
@Tyre- Psalm 102:25-26 "Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself, And the heavens are the work of your hands. 26 They themselves will perish, but you yourself will keep standing; And just like a garment they will all of them wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will finish their turn." Isaiah 51:6 "Raise YOUR eyes to the heavens themselves, and look at the earth beneath. For the very heavens must be dispersed in fragments just like smoke, and like a garment the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants themselves will die like a mere gnat. But as for my salvation, it will prove to be even to time indefinite, and my own righteousness will not be shattered." Matthew 24:34-35 "Truly I say to YOU that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. 35 Heaven and earth will passaway, but my words will by no means pass away." Hebrews 1:10-12 "You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they willall grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out." - The earth will wear out, doesn't indicate it might end tomorrow.. God might create a new earth..
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Tyre
when you read Isa. 65:17, does it says He will cleanse the earth just like in the Noah's day ?
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The Quiet One
@Tyre- No, I don't know what translation you are reading. It speaks of a 'new heavens and a new earth.. the former things will not be called to mind'. There's no reason this has to be literal either, see here... http://bible.cc/isaiah/65-17.htm "The passage before us is highly poetical, and we are not required to understand it literally. There is, so far as the language is concerned, no more reason for understanding this literally than there is for so understanding the numerous declarations which affirm that the brute creation will undergo a change in their very nature, on the introduction of the gospel Isaiah 11 ; and all that the language necessarily implies is, that there would be changes in the condition of the people of God as great as if the heavens, overcast with clouds and subject to storms, should be recreated, so as to become always mild and serene; or as if the earth, so barren inmany places, should become universally fertile and beautiful. The immediate reference here is, doubtless, to the land of Palestine, and to the important changes which would be produced there on the return of the exiles;but it cannot be doubted that, under this imagery, there was couched a reference to far more important changes and blessings in future times under the Messiah - changes as great as if a barren and sterile world should become universally beautiful and fertile. For the former shall not be remembered - That is, that which shall be created shall be so superior in beauty as entirely to eclipse the former. The sense is, that the future condition of the people of God would be as superior to what it was in ancient times as would be a newly created earth and heaven superior in beauty to this -where the heavens are so often obscured by clouds, and where the earth is so extensively desolate or barren."
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The Quiet One
@Tyre-I'm waiting..
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Tyre
J-dubs kinda strange.... which has two destinations (Heaven and heaven on Earth), when many religions on earth has only one destinations which is Only Heaven (Christians included).
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The Quiet One
@Tyre- Good point. I agree that it's strange.. But think about it. Without the two-class system (heavenly and earthly), the GB would have no real authority as mediators between Jesus and the Great Crowd. This doctrine, which involves twisting scriptures IMO, such as Jesus' words 'you will be with me in Paradise', considering that all other uses of the word in the Bible are referring to a heavenly paradise as even the WT literature says, keeps the inferior servant class in its place. http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/earth-forever.php "The word paradise is used only four times in the New World Translation of the Bible and each passage discussing a location refers to heaven. ( Song of Solomon 4:13; Luke 23:39-43; 2 Corinthians 12:1-7; Revelation 2:5-7) Revelation 2:7 "Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." The Watchtower identifies this as heaven; Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.576 Paradise"Eating in "the Paradise of God." Revelation 2:7 mentions a "tree of life" in "the paradise of God" and that eating from it would be the privilege of the one"that conquers." Since other promises given in this section of Revelation to such conquering ones clearly relate to their gaining a heavenly inheritance (Re 2:26-28; 3:12, 21), it seems evident that "the paradise of God" in this case is a heavenly one." 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 "I know a man in union with Christ who, fourteen years ago-whether in the body I do not know, or out of thebody I do not know; God knows-was caught away as such to the third heaven. 3 Yes, I know sucha man-whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know, God knows- 4 that he was caught away into paradise and heard unutterable words which it is not lawful for a man to speak." Luke 23:42-43 is the only occasion that the Watchtower claims the word paradise refers to the earth. The context indicates otherwise and it is generally accepted that this scripture refers to heaven."
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Chalam
Seems like these important verses might have eluded you?
Pay close attention to verses 6 & 8!
Matthew 24:4-8
English Standard Version (ESV)
4 And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will befamines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
Blessings,
Stephen
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The Quiet One
[url] http://bible.cc/matthew/24-7.htm [/url] -- 'Barnes' Notes on the Bible Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom - At Caesarea the Jews and Syrians contended about the right to the city, and twenty thousand of the Jews were slain. At this blow the whole nation of the Jews was exasperated, and carried war and desolation through the Syrian cities and villages. Sedition and civil war spread throughout Judea; Italy was also thrown into civil war by the contests between Otho and Vitellius for the crown. And there shall be famines - There was a famine foretold by Agabus Acts 11:28 , which is mentioned by Tacitus, Suetonius, and Eusebius, and which was so severe in Jerusalem, Josephus says, that many people perished for want of food, Antiq. xx. 2. Four times in the reign of Claudius (41-54 a.d.) famine prevailed in Rome, Palestine, and Greece. Pestilences - Raging epidemic diseases; the plague, sweeping off multitudes of people at once. It is commonly the attendant of famine, and often produced by it.A pestilence is recorded as raging in Babylonia, 40 a.d. (Josephus, Antiq. xviii. 9. 8); in Italy, 66 a.d. (Tacitus 16. 13). Bothof these took place before the destruction of Jerusalem. Earthquakes - In prophetic language, earthquakes sometimes mean political commotions. Literally, they are tremors or shakings of the earth, often shaking cities and towns toruin. The earth opens, and houses and people sink indiscriminately to destruction. Many of these are mentioned as preceding the destruction of Jerusalem. Tacitus mentions one in the reign of Claudius, at Rome, and says that in the reign of Nerothe cities of Laodicea, Hierapolis, and Colosse were overthrown, and the celebrated Pompeii was overwhelmed and almost destroyed by an earthquake, Annales, 15. 22. Others are mentioned as occurring at Smyrna, Miletus, Chios, and Samos. Luke adds, "And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven," Luke 21:11 . Josephus, who had probably never heard of this prophecy, and who certainly would have done nothing designedly to show its fulfillment, records the prodigies and signs which He says preceded the destruction of the city. A star, says he, resembling a sword, stood over the city, and a comet that continued a whole year. At the feast of unleavened bread, during the night, a bright light shone round the altar and the temple, so that it seemed to be bright day, for half an hour. The eastern gate of the temple, ofsolid brass, fastened with strong bolts and bars, and which had been shut with difficulty by twenty men, opened in the night of its own accord. A few days after that feast, He says, "Before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities." A great noise, as of the sound of a multitude, was heard in the temple, saying, "Let us remove hence." Four years beforethe war began, Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman, came to the feast of the tabernacles when the city was in peace and prosperity, andbegan to cry aloud, "A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegroom and the brides, and a voice against this whole people!" He was scourged, and atevery stroke of the whip He cried,"Woe, woe to Jerusalem!" This cry, Josephus says, was continued every day for more than seven years, until He was killed in the siege of the city, exclaiming, "Woe, woe to myself also!" - Jewish Wars, b. 6 chapter 9, section 3.' -- And here's something that YOU may have overlooked.. http://ecclesia.org/truth/mat08.html Matthew 24:34 (NKJV) "Assuredly,I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." Jesus here, very plainly and very clearly, tells His disciples that ALL of the things he had mentioned would come to pass in THEIR GENERATION . This includes the gospel being preached in all the world, the abomination of desolation, the great tribulation, and the coming of the Son of man.' 'God calls 40 years a generation in Numbers 32:13 and in Hebrews 3:8-10.' These are just a few highlights, I recommend that you check the pages yourself. Thanks for replying, though. :)