Do you blame Judas.

by mankkeli 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • Awen

    Yeah I took the video down because of an article I found a few minutes later on Gerald Massey.

    Although the iconography is fascinating.

  • Lore

    If the bible stories are true, then they didn't have to be sneeky about arresting him. Jesus' little stunt with the whip and turning over the tables was enough to get him arrested. You don't need to make up false charges for that.

    You also don't need someone to point him out, this guy has been going around rezzing people and teaching for 3 years, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone who can recognise his face.

  • tec

    My thoughts are that just because God knew what was going to happen, does not mean that He MADE it happen. He has quite a bit bigger view to see who we are and where we're going - having seen us all from the beginning of time, in every culture and time. Sort of like when we can see the consequences coming for our own children's actions, but our children can't.

    Did it have to happen? I think so, yes - so that Christ could lay down his life for us, be obedient even to death, and show us that there is nothing to fear in death... to name a few. But it isn't for me to blame or not. Judas is not MY servant, and God will have mercy on whomever He chooses.



  • Lore
    Sort of like when we can see the consequences coming for our own children's actions, but our children can't.

    Except it goes way farther than just that.

    Yeah if your son is already 17 years old and doing drugs and stealing you can extrapolate into the future and assume he'll shortly be in jail or dead.

    But according to Christians Yahweh predicted the specifics, all the way down to the exact price, hundreds or thousands of years before he was born.

    There are 4 possibilities here:

    1: Yahweh caused it to happen and violated Judas' free will by forcing him to accept the bribe.

    2: It really is possible to predict exactly what someone is going to do thousands of years before they are born, in which case free will is an illusion.

    3: Yahweh threw out a random guess about what was going to happen and just got SUPER lucky on the details.

    4: It's actually just a myth.

  • tec

    Lore, I would agree with number three, but without the part you bolded. (not that I am authority on this subject, but I can understand this 'option') If we, limited to our one pov and our eighty years, can predict with some certainty the consequence of an action, then how much more powerful would a being who has seen into the hearts of ALL, through all time and culture - and then be able to predict where mankind as a whole is going, even to the specific actions of some? Especially in a big event such as the Son of God come in the flesh?



  • PSacramento

    Judas did what was his "role" to do.

    There are many versions of interpretations of his act, from being the most believing of believers and understanding His role, to doing whathe did to force Jesus's hand, to being simply a "thief" and interested only in money ( As the GOJ kind of illudes too).

    We don't knwo one way or another but we we probably can assume is that Jesus forgave him and that Jesus understood.

  • Lore

    Lore, I would agree with number three, but without the part you bolded.

    Do you mean number 2?

    Just checking.

  • tec

    LOL... yes, I meant number 2.

  • Knowsnothing

    Not only was Judas predestined, but so was Cirus, Pharoah, among many others.

    Not even Jesus had free will it seems. And the many prophecies of Jesus involve so many other people (army guards playing dice over his clothes, no broken bones, etc.) that it seems there really is no free will.

    God does whatever he wants. So, when he says man can't rule himself (Jeremiah 10:23) he means it, because he simply will intervene and won't allow it.

  • MrFreeze

    If God knew he was going to do it ahead of time, well in advance before Judas was even born, how does that make it a choice for Judas? That means there is no free will. Unless you buy into the selective foresight nonsense.

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