The WTS claims that the length of Babylon’s King Nebuchadnezzar’s suppressed state symbolised the suppressed state of God’s Kingdom. Each day of the heathen king’s lack of control represented a year of heathen supremacy.
Since Nebuchadnezzar’s experience was symbolic, it would have ended before the fulfilment started; unfortunately the Hebrew’s Scriptures do not specify that moment. The WTS is not so backward, pinning the commencement of heathen supremacy over God’s Kingdom to two months after Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, during the 19th year of his reign.
The king was mad for seven “times”, which is taken to mean seven “years”. Using the Revelation, even though the book was unknown to the people who wrote the book of Daniel, the WTS explains that each “time” was fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar as a “year”. The “times” of Daniel actually refers to the fulfilment upon Nebuchadnezzar and not to any secondary fulfilment derived from Nebuchadnezzar’s fulfilment, as the WTS would have.
Looking at the first 19 years of Nebuchadnezzar’s rule, Parker and Dubberstein identify the following additional (intercalary) months inserted: Ululu II (years 5, 10, 15, 19) and Addaru II (years 2, 7, 12). Depending on the year that his madness started, several years would have been extended by an extra 30 days during his first 19 years. Accepting that scenario would permit the WTS to easily shift their end-date by a few decades.
The WTS could have argued more reasonably that the suppressed state of Judah symbolised the suppressed state of God’s kingdom. Thus their 70 years of being punished would equate to a future low state of God’s Kingdom. This would mean that the fulfilment commenced some time after the 70 years had ended.
This means the symbolised period would have started some time after the Fall of Babylon. As it turns out, the precise date does not matter to us. Nor does it matter whether each year was 360 days long with the occasionally inserted intercalary month, or if each year was 365 days long. The minimum length of years would represent 25,200 years while the longer years would represent about 25,500 years. This highlights how ridiculous their concept is.
As the earth rushes towards 2014, what then should the WTS do? It will be faced with JWs living between the 100th anniversary of the start of the Great War (August 1) and the 100th anniversary of the start of their Kingdom Rule (October 1).
I suggest that the WTS’s Mind Controllers be locked in the Theocratic War Strategy Bunker to devise a replacement “Whatever you do, arrive at 1914” strategy. Perhaps they will rediscover one of the earlier reasonings, such as the use of Leviticus 26.
The problems they have with the interpretation of Daniel 4, their obviously wrong neo-Babylonian chronology, all need to be taken away and shoved into the bottom drawer, never to see daylight again. People will accept. Millions have already been taken in, so there is no reason the changes will prevent it continuing.
Doug
Whatever you do, arrive at 1914
by Doug Mason 18 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Doug Mason
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wobble
A good informative post as usual Doug,thanks.
We have debated on here in a number of threads how the WT is going to handle the problem of 1914, along with its attendant problem of the Big A not happening, and we wondered what direction they would go .
The consensus seems to be that they will bury 1914 as you say, much as they buried 1799 and 1874 etc. but, in addition, many felt they would go more mainstream, pulling away from the Blood Doctrine and maybe the ex-communicating to some degree.
The perrenial problem they have is that their recruitment has relied upon their being different, upon an Apocalyptic message of impending doom/judgement and their retention has relied upon strict control of information and the threat of shunning.
If they change their modus operandi (basically typical cult methods) and their unique doctrines, even to a small degree, they risk a large exodus, and what do they have to offer that would be different to other churches ?
I see them becoming more and more hard-line as to discipline and control, and just having the odd bit of "New Light" that extends the "Time of the End" a little further in to the 21st Century, the overlapping generation has only bought them a little time, as we pass 2014 they will need some pretty nifty "New Light" !
Good luck with all that Governing Body !
It was an open-minded reading of Daniel that made me realise that 1914 was just simply not in scripture, which started my journey to here, JWN, and my journey out of the WT. Your posts over the years have helped me no end on that journey, thanks again Doug.
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james_woods
the overlapping generation has only bought them a little time, as we pass 2014 they will need some pretty nifty "New Light" !
I think that in many ways, that overlapping generation lunacy has caused them more problems than it solved.
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ProdigalSon
The more I learn about the ancient prophecies by NUMEROUS civilizations, compared with geological evidence and world events over the last decade or so, the less I doubt that 2012 will come and go just like any other year. I don't know exactly what it's going to bring, but one thing is for sure: it will make 2014 and the Watchtower completely irrelevant.
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Sulla
There has been some chatter amongst the JW apologist class that all this 1914 / predicting the time of the End stuff is really a sideshow to the "core" teachings about the Trinity, hell, the soul, etc. Those teachings have never changed and are the real doctrinal marks of the JWs. Therefore, and because they're not supposed to be serving with some date in mind, the entire 1914 thing could be changed, no problem.
There are two problems with that. The first is merely logical (in the sense that JWs ignore logic all the time and it isn't really a problem for them): their entire ecclesiology is built on 1914. Many people have pointed this out before. But the entire JW justification for being the boss depends on this particular story.
The second is the one mentioned by wobble, above: the JWs have always been an apocalyptic sect. Take away the nearness of the End and you get rigidly moral Unitarians. But nobody is going to put up with the hassles associated with being a JW without a pretty good reason. All of the distinctive and divisive elements of the JWs makes some sort of sense if you are genuinely convinced of the whole story. Is it the kind of thing that holds together based only on its non-prophetic teachings? I think for a much smaller set of current JWs.
I think I would disagree that the overlapping generations has caused more problems than it has solved. I'd suggest it is a good teaching in the sense that it solves a big problem at low cost. The big problem it solved is, of course, that the older teaching had no sense of urgency: the End could have been hundreds of years off. Measure this against the cost, some low percentage of people rejecting the teaching and leaving, and you have a good policy. You keep the justification for high control, while only losing a small number of members. I think the JWs are really happy with that adjustment.
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Dutch-scientist
a day for an year was made twice BY GOD. how many days contains a year in that time? Who knows?
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james_woods
I'd suggest it is a good teaching in the sense that it solves a big problem at low cost.
The low cost being the total disregard of sanity. Even a good number of dumbed-down witnesses can see that a generation is simply one generation and that this is just another excuse for a prophecy that did not work.
The big problem it solved is, of course, that the older teaching had no sense of urgency: the End could have been hundreds of years off.
No, the older teaching had the urgency that people alive in 1914 (the generation) and old enough to understand 1914 had to still be alive at the end. Time had simply run out for this to come true - so the new teaching had to buy some more time (i.e. lessen the urgency on the watchtower prophecy).
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Sulla
Yes, total disregard of sanity is a low cost for the JWs, they are lunatics (compare Umberto Eco's definition). By "older teaching" I was referring to the more recent of the "generation" teachings, which held that the generation was simply the wicked people who did not accept the JW teachings. That group is really always going to be around, thank God.
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DesirousOfChange
I think that in many ways, that overlapping generation lunacy has caused them more problems than it solved.
I agree. There is murmurring everywhere about the overlap crap. Some bailed out with the change in 1995. Of those who questioned that "delay" (I know, I know, "....it will not delay....") but hung in there, some are leaving now, but even more are living in doubt, going through the motions, keeping one foot in the religion (just in case). Face it, most JWs are not anxious to run out and swap partners, do drugs, smoke tobacco, etc etc. So, it's easy to continue living the lifestyle that is JW acceptable, that looks good and proper and devoted from the outside, but at the same time, go on and pursue the things that you really want in life. Bigger houses, nicer cars, fancy vacations (everyone is going on cruises). In the past, the JWs put all of that off (even music lessons for the kids) because the end was SO NEAR and you could do all of that stuff after the Big A. Now, I see many of them coming to the realization that they better do it now as they might never have the opportunity again.
Overlapping? They're just waiting to see what the NEXT new light is on that matter...........................
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james_woods
By "older teaching" I was referring to the more recent of the "generation" teachings, which held that the generation was simply the wicked people who did not accept the JW teachings. That group is really always going to be around, thank God.
Got you - I had forgotten about the "middle" older teaching.
And yes - the more they re-explain this - (as per millions now living WILL - no, wait make that MAY never die) - the more idiotic it becomes.