Continuing to draw the line between cults and DESTRUCTIVE cults

by sabastious 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    In that case, I'd like to nominate "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" as one of those benign cults...

    *gets a cold chill for some reason*

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.


  • ziddina

    "Brad, I'm wet and I'm cold and I just want to go home!"

    (Zid is really tempted to post some "Rocky Horror" scenes, but slaps self - doesn't want to derail this great thread!!)

    Aw, I CAN'T RESIST!! Hopefully this video will post...

  • sabastious
    For me, knowing the Watchtower Society is DEFINITELY a cult helped me immensely. That knowledge IMMEDIATELY negated ANY and ALL of the cult's vestigial programming that might have otherwise caused me to be sucked - er, 'suckered' - back in.

    It's important to understand the formula used to seize our minds. Only after understanding it can you fight against it, right?


  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Rodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.

  • MrDarkKnight

    I get it. Due to the nature of my service with the JWs I knew when I left I could never, ever go back. They would make my life a living hell. I also know that I do not want to hand my rational mind over to any person or group of people ever again.

    The Buddha expresses my new paradigm when it comes to any knowledge be it religious, philisophical or any other kind of knowledge: "“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”

    I guess you could say I am building my own system of values and beliefs. This board is helping me to do just that.

    Thanks again! The journey continues...

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I wish we could agree on a less perjorative term that describes cults. High mind control has been used on tihs forum. The negative connotation when it is used today allows Witnesses to feel unfairly persecuted. Knocking on doors supposes that people will be docile. I never made it to the end of my script--unless the person spoke a foreign language. Intrusiveness and overreaching should be part of the description.

    I have many passions so I have many neutral cults. Beatles, ballet, opera, history. Princess Bride was a good, fun film.

  • discreetslave

    Seeing them as a cult helps cut the strings attached that lead many to go back to the Watchtower.

    As for the Princess Bride Vizzini should be on the governing body

    Fezzik: I just don't think it's right, killing an innocent girl.
    Vizzini: Am I going MAD, or did the word "think" escape your lips? You were not hired for your brains, you hippopotamic land mass.

  • WTWizard

    Fact is, there are "benign cults". They don't have any enforcement of rules, and they don't have power structures. Examples of this are fads and trends. You get this type of cult with people using mini discs (very few use them or have heard of them, but those who do are favorably impressed by them). You get this type of cult with investing--sometimes with good results (like investing in silver now--a "benign cult" now, but will pay off big time when it goes mainstream with no warning except the onset of hyperinflation). You saw this kind of cult with Saturday Night Fever back in 1978, when that movie and the disco music it featured peaked in popularity. You saw Michael Jackson fans when the Thriller album was out--a kind of benign cult. Rap music also has many fans that can be viewed as a cult. Other major "benign cults" include the Pac-Man craze of the early 1980s, Beatle Mania, and hula hoops back in the 1950s.

    It might be of note that such "cults" usually die out with time. (Or, in some cases, become mainstream when the whole world wakes up to it). There is no penalty--silver investors are not interrogated for buying copper, gold, oil, or even stocks and bonds. No one has ever been interrogated by the Saturday Night Fever cult for listening to heavy metal (in fact, I enjoyed both in its place). Michael Jackson fans never got a hard time for enjoying Prince, Madonna, or other music. Mini disc users sometimes continue using CD-Rs, MP3 files, cassette tape, or other storage media without censorship. And, I have seen many a Pac-Man fan playing the occasional game of Asteroids, Centipede, or Missile Command without getting in trouble.

    The destructive cults, on the other hand, always have rigorous enforcement. There are definitive rules, and if you break one or show signs of supporting competition, they can and will censor you up to and including cutting off your membership, busting up families, and threatening you with harsh consequences including hell or death. You cannot later find out that you have been ripped off or that it is not for you--you will reap censorship, hounding, and threats. This would be like getting in trouble for listening to Foreigner or Boston because you belonged to the Saturday Night Fever cult, listening to the Police' Synchronicity (the Michael Jackson cult), buying gold (the silver investment cult), using MP3s (the mini disc cult), or playing Centipede instead of Pac-Man on one occasion.

    Besides, a destructive cult is going to hold you in for life. You are stuck with their activities for life. The "benign cults" usually take off for a time, and die off. While Pac-Man was a cult in its day, very few people still play it. Saturday Night Fever and Thriller, while still great albums, must now compete with Madonna, Prince, TLC, Whitney Houston, 50 Cent, and whatever else people want to listen to. And very few people that were once big mini disc fans still use them--unless to replace cassette tape for personal storage of music. Can the same be said for Jehovah's Witlesses?

    As for silver, it is true that it is still "cult-like". This, unlike the other "cults", will find itself mainstream (as it once was before the dollar went fiat in the 1970s). Those holding onto dollars will find them worthless at that time (like in Zimbabwe) because too many of them are being printed. But, no one is forcing you to invest in ever-increasing amounts of silver. People volitionally do it to protect the value of their wealth--and stand to reap big time when the currency fails or the banks are forced to buy to undo their short positions. At which point, gold and silver (yes, both) will be used as money--once again, rendering it mainstream. And not destructive, as it does not dictate everything a person does any more than regular money does now.

  • MrDarkKnight

    @discreet slave - I guess my problem with the term cult is the same problem I have with term "apostate" or any other label that you can give a person or an organization. I have often been called an "uppity nigger from the North." It is label that has been used when people I work with cannot refute the logic of my arguments on engineering. I hate it when a person is discredited by label instead of by the argument. If I know something is hurtful to me or is flat out wrong I don't feel a need to label it, I just need to avoid it.

    The JWs label anyone who disagrees with their doctrine an "apostate." This label prevents JWs from listening to opposing views even when it is obvious that they are wrong and the opposing view is correct. The whole child molestation tragedy is an example of this. As soon as you voiced disagreement you were categorized as having apostate leanings and this caused others to stop listening. This was something I could not stand and so I had to leave.

    @Quendi - I agree that the JW leadership exercises great control over the rank and file. And I agree that to prosper in the JW world you have to let others do the thinking for you in every area of life. And while I am disappointed at the time lost to that way of life (30 years as a baptized Witness) and the negative impact it has had on my life (depression, suicidal thoughts and a suicide attempt), I feel that reason I stayed as I long as I did has more to do with ME than with THEM. My self-esteem was dependent on what my JW peers and family though of me. Until I was able to fall in love with myself and to love life itself my low self-esteem kept me imprisoned in that organization. Now that I am free, I feel the need to spend more time on myself, my values, my goals and my way of life. Living a truly happy life is what will keep me from going back. The JWs will never change. They will fizzle out and splinter out before that happens. But I can change, I have changed and I will continue to change...and this process is what I feel will benefit me the most in the long run.

    Having said that Steve Hassan's book is on my list of books to read. However, the books I am reading now have more to do with ME and what I value than with THEM.

    Do you feel me?

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