Continuing to draw the line between cults and DESTRUCTIVE cults

by sabastious 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    The easiest place to start understanding a spectral concept, such as cults, is to indentify it's lowest and highest points rather than starting somewhere in the middle.

    So lets call the lowest point of the cult spectrum benign and the highest point destructive.

    A good example of an extremely benign cult would be the following of the not so popular 80s movie: The Princess Bride of which I consider myself a member (no documentation ). I was also a member of a destructive cult, as we all know, the Watchtower.

    If you were to come up to me and claim to be part of the Princess Bride's cult following I could figure out whether you are a true member by asking you a few questions. Based on your answers I could then conclude that you either meet the criteria or that you do not. I might start off with some easy ones like what does ROUS stand for? And end with something difficult like "finish this scene from this line: I'm not a witch I'm your wife!" Of course if cannot pass my stupid test I am only disappointed of the fact that I can't banter with you about the movie as all cult members like to talk about the cult's content. I do not hold any different opinion about you since being obsessed with a movie isn't necessarily a good thing. I don't need you to like the moive for us to have a relationship.

    On the other hand when I was in the Watchtower and you came up to me claimed to be "one of Jehovah's Witnesses" I could, once again, then ask you some questions for verification. If I didn't conclude that you were one of Jehovah's Witnesses then I would then have to immediately suspect foul play, or just think lowly of you, since you can't just say that you're one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You must first have been groomed for many months and study our literature with one of our represenatives. This represenative much vouch for you. After partaking actively in our world wide ministry as well as showing a keen interest in our way of life you could then be eligible for a special oral question and answer test. If you pass this test you can then get baptised in the True Religion, not now, but at the next convention or assembly held triannually all over the world.

    ^ Both scanarios involve people's preferences of being around like minded people, but one is totally harmless and one yields unspeakable horrors.

    -Sab

  • MrDarkKnight
    MrDarkKnight

    I have read several different threads about cults and whether the JWs are a cult. Why is it important to know if JWs are a cult or not? I am asking respectfully because I would like to understand, and right now I don't. I mean I have left it behind, so how does knowing it is a cult help me moving forward?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    I have read several different threads about cults and whether the JWs are a cult. Why is it important to know if JWs are a cult or not? I am asking respectfully because I would like to understand, and right now I don't. I mean I have left it behind, so how does knowing it is a cult help me moving forward?

    It's not important to help define the Watchtower as merely a cult, but a destructive cult. The Watchtower has a tight grip on it's members and puts them through a designed regimen where the Rank and File become emotionally drained and have low self-esteem. It's easier to control people who don't really care for themselves, but are willing to put up a front for others as well as help them to distract from the elephant in the room within their minds (self hate).

    When a Witness leaves the hive (stops going to meetings and field service) they go through a withdrawl period. In this period, which can last for years, they have a hard time believing that the Watchtower is a destructive mind control cult much like Scientology/Mormanism is. We start out in denial mode, I know I did, and it's an important step to admit to ourselves what they truly are. Otherwise it's just intellectual dishonesty all over again with a different flavor and context.

    -Sab

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne
    so how does knowing it is a cult help me moving forward?

    Some people find studying cults interesting and helpful because it helps them to recognize certain tactics and how they have been affected mentally by those tactics. Part of the study of cults involves clarifying terms, so that is one reason you see people discussing what a cult is.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Some people find studying cults interesting and helpful because it helps them to recognize certain tactics and how they have been affected mentally by those tactics. Part of the study of cults involves clarifying terms, so that is one reason you see people discussing what a cult is.

    The study of cults is the study of psychology, imo.

    -Sab

  • flipper
    flipper

    Once again I'll use this thread as an opportunity to recommend Steve Hassan's books " Combatting Cult Mind control " & " Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People to Think for themselves " . MRDARKKNIGHT- If you get a chance to read these two books - it will assist you to understand what really defines a cult. These books helped me and many others immensely after exiting the Jehovah's Witnesses. I highly recommend these books.

    SABASTIOUS - I am a huge " Princess Bride " fan of that movie. Not to the point of joining or forming a " cult " over it for Christ's sakes but I would like to send the GB members BACK where they came from ! " Unemployed in Greenland ! " Yeah, defintely a cool movie , one of many films I have in my collection

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    I've posted this before but I think its once again relevant to the topic.

    Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
    1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

    2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

    3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

    4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

    5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

    6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

    7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

    8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

    9. The group/leader is always right.

    10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

    Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
    1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

    2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

    3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

    4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

    5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

    6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

    7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

    8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

    9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

    10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

    Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
    1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.

    2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.

    3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.

    4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.

    5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.

    6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.

    7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.

    8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.

    9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.

    10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.
  • Quendi
    Quendi

    Thanks, sabastious and thetrueone, for both the thread and reminder about cults. When I decided not to seek reinstatement and remain "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", I also denied the religion was a cult. Changing my mind has helped me along my own spiritual path and facilitated my personal growth. I think, MrDarkKnight, you and others like you will find the same true in your personal lives when you have made an examination and reached your own conclusions on this important question.

    Quendi

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    I would like to send the GB members BACK where they came from ! " Unemployed in Greenland ! "

    HAHA! That reminds me of the old men at the end of trading spaces.

    -Sab

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Waitasec...

    There are BENIGN cults????

    In that case, I'd like to nominate "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" as one of those benign cults...

    Sorry. Got distracted.

    MrDarkKnight, you said,

    "I mean I have left it behind, so how does knowing it is a cult help me moving forward? ..."

    For me, knowing the Watchtower Society is DEFINITELY a cult helped me immensely. That knowledge IMMEDIATELY negated ANY and ALL of the cult's vestigial programming that might have otherwise caused me to be sucked - er, 'suckered' - back in.

    Knowing that it was a cult immediately rendered ALL of its scare tactics NULL and VOID.

    I researched cults at the insistence of the first therapist that I went to, after exiting. She was a very smart lady...

    Zid

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