What would be your reaction if the original ten commandments were found written in hieroglyphic

by Joey Jo-Jo 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo

    According to historians, the hebrew language came at a later date and there is strong evidence to support that the original writtings of moses were destroyed and and was re-writen by ezra.

    remember that the account explains that moses became part of the egyption royal family, did he learn the arts of horus and others, the same with Aaron, why was aaron quick to make a golden calf? Why did the people wanted to become like gods, and why when moses found out made them drink the golden calf?

    1 When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, “Come, make us gods [a] who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.”

    2 Aaron answered them, “Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me.” 3 So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. 4 He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, “These are your gods, [b] Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”

    5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, “Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD.” 6 So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. Afterward they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.

    7 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’

    9 “I have seen these people,” the LORD said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people. 10 Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.”

    11 But Moses sought the favor of the LORD his God. “LORD,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” 14 Then the LORD relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

    15 Moses turned and went down the mountain with the two tablets of the covenant law in his hands. They were inscribed on both sides, front and back. 16 The tablets were the work of God; the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets.

    17 When Joshua heard the noise of the people shouting, he said to Moses, “There is the sound of war in the camp.”

    18 Moses replied:

    “It is not the sound of victory,
    it is not the sound of defeat;
    it is the sound of singing that I hear.”

    19 When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. 20 And he took the calf the people had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink it.

    'The Calf of Gold' and is told 'Your mother is the great wild cow who lives in el Kab. She will nurse you." (Pyramid Text 729a. cf. p.175.

    moses people did not believe in monotheism, YHWH, the male and female, the negative and positive, god spoke about these other gods as real, also YHWH does not appear in the oldest account of exodus the dead see schrools. goetica and other hebrew and arabic ocult texts are the only books that explain the meaning of the tetragrammaton(along with other gods, sub gods and chiefs)

  • Leolaia
    According to historians, the hebrew language came at a later date and there is strong evidence to support that the original writtings of moses were destroyed and and was re-writen by ezra.

    Actually the standard historical view is that the Pentateuch was redacted in the postexilic era (e.g. the time of Ezra) from older sources, including pre-exilic sources. None of these sources are of an antiquity as old as Moses (the language is of a much later date). What you present above is rather the story from 4 Ezra (late first century AD) that claims that the original books of Moses burned in the destruction of Jerusalem and Ezra rewrote them via divine inspiration. This probably preserves traditions that Ezra was responsible for the redaction of the Pentateuch and that this redaction occurred after the Exile, but it is otherwise unhistorical and rather pertains to the authority of pseudipegraphal books (the other books kept secret mentioned in the story), which are deemed authoritative even though they are pseudepigraphal (since even the Torah is technically pseudepigraphal), including the book of 4 Ezra itself.

    Biblical Hebrew is simply a Northwest Semitic dialect, or rather, dialect family descended from the Canaanite dialects spoken in the Levant in the Late Bronze Age (the purported time of Moses). LBA Canaanite is attested in the Tell el-Amarna letters, inscriptions, and in Ugaritic, and is clearly more archaic than the kind of Hebrew found in the OT. Also, even though the alphabetic script derivative of Proto-Sinaitic was in existence, the primary literary script was still cuneiform (at Ras Shamra it was even adapted to alphabetical representation), and Akkadian was used was the main language in the Amarna tablets (instead of Egyptian), as it was still the recognized international lingua franca.

    As far as the Golden Calf story is concerned, this reflects the well-attested bull iconography in early Yahwism and in particular the golden bulls fashioned by King Jeroboam I (1 Kings 12:25-33). The Aaronid tale specifically connects the idol to Yahwistic worship (Exodus 32:5). You may check out my post here on the copious evidence of bovine iconism in Israelite Yahwism, and its derivation from the bovine representation of El in earlier Canaanite religion (the conflation of El with Yahweh resulted in attributes of El being applied to Yahweh). Iconism in general was subject to censure by the later Yahwistic prophets and reforms such as the one by Josiah (assisted by the production of Deuteronomy) were aimed at abolishing both iconism and the foreign cults introduced by (refugee) priests from the then-defunct Northern Kingdom.

  • PSacramento

    I don't really doubt that Moses was the one responsible for putting the history of the Israelites in writing, at least H ewas the one that got it started.

    I am sure he based much of it on the two oral traditions that had been passed down to the Hebrews captive in Egypt.

    Whether or not he finished the Pentateuch is another story, I doubt that he did since they speak of things that happend AFTER he died.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Spain, Italy, Greece - they are bull obsessed.

    C.S. Lewis, writing around WWII, made the obvious point in Mere Christianity that every culture has basic laws reflecting a moral code. Murder, thievery, marital relations, etc. are generally treated the same around the world. Cultures with no contact with each other have these prohibitions and affirmative duties.

    My Ten Commandments interest comes from a series of recent Supreme Court decisions. There were two decisions handed down on the same day that reached different results. Basically, the Court ruled it was permissible for govt. to erect generic Ten Commandment monuments or displays. They used their Ten Commandment display as a good example of what is permissible. The numbers and details are blurred. Different religions have different versions. For govt. to endorse a particular wording is wrong. Moses, among a bunch of law makers, shows it is secular, not religious. The purpose in erecting the Ten Cs is important. Texas could accept an eagle scout plague as part of a campaign against juvenile deliguency. The case that was help improper had detailed text of the Ten Cs. A minister prayed over it when it opened. Its purpose was to promote Bible literacy.

    I joke that there is a good taste test. The Court adores their display. This mimics the creche public displays. A creche alone breaks all rules. Add Santa Claus and reindeer - voila! just fine. Basically, the Ten Cs can be viewed as a generic rules for good behavior. Most people think this reasoning is very warped and silly. I agree with most people. Warped and silly as a legal rule of distinction in these cases. Facts don't matter much in these cases. Rather, see which party nominated the justice.

    This material is so fascinating from so many different angles. Sadly, I could not be exposed to any of this in public school. It reminds me of history in general. Why are we taught such water downed nonsense when the subject is so varied and dynamic.

    Do modern-day Israelis and Arabs realize they are the same group. First, are they? Don't they share a common language root? I know nothing about Islam, almost nothing. I read that Moslems believe in Abraham and reverse the legitimate son in the story. Some property dispute between relatives became very heated. Nothing bars teaching history of religion to public school kids. If it were taught, people would not be so impressed by the Witness presentation.

  • Curtains
    Do modern-day Israelis and Arabs realize they are the same group

    I've read that they are both semitic.

  • botchtowersociety
    What would be your reaction if the original ten commandments were found written in hieroglyphic

    Well. Moses did have an Egyptian education, and Egyptian hieroglyphics do predate Hebrew writing, which is based on the Phoenician alphabet.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Ver true. An Egyptian prince would be literate. I always felt it was strange that he was not raised by a slave couple or a baker. The princess finding him is over the top. Yet he knew he was Hebrew. Maybe his circumcision but how did he hide it from the Egyptians for so long?

    This is weird timing. I read this thread this morning and then listened to Old Testament Teaching Company tapes. She did not address this point. What I found interesting is that a lot of weird stories in the Old testament references matters of general cultural awareness. We don't have the stories today but readers back then would know all these side stories. She says Isaac may have been around 30 yrs old. He may have been a willing sacrifice.

  • designs

    Many Jewish scholars openly write about the influences of earlier cultures on Jewish thought, ritual and culture.

  • AGuest

    I would not be surprised, at all, JJJ (peace to you!). Because the Law that Moses received (the "Ten Commandments") was already known by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... and particularly Joseph, who became second in command in Israel. That is why Joseph ran from Potiphar's wife: he didn't need to SEE some law saying that what she was proposing was wrong - he knew it was... in his heart. Because the particular law... was written ON his heart. The only reason the Law was WRITTEN on the stone tablets was because at the time of their exodus Israel showed that they had obviously FORGOTTEN them... that, unlike with Abraham, et al., it was NOT written on their hearts!

    You see, once Joseph died there really wasn't anyone among the Hebrews who took the lead in keeping the laws "alive"... no one who said, "Hey, you don't want to do that - that's 'wrong' against God/your brother." As a result, Israel turned away from what was "right" and toward the beliefs of Egypt. Which is why JAH called them OUT... to celebrate a festival to HIM. Their life in Egypt had become miserable and, in their misery, they began CRYING OUT. So, JAH heard... and responded... with the caveat that they return to him.

    Which is why the institution of the Law Covenant at Sinai: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... and Joseph... had all PROVED that they belonged to and followed JAH. Israel in Egypt, however, had not... but said they were WILLING to so belong. So, God PROMISED to be their God, leader, guide... and protector... if THEY promised to keep His Laws. Unfortunately, they were such an unfaithful, rebellious group, that Moses had to KEEP adding laws to the Ten.

    All they truly needed to do, however, was show love: to God first, one another (including Moses) second (their "brother"), the alien resident among them (their "neighbor")... and in even their enemies. But they couldn't do any of these things... and so, they were ultimately rejected as a "holy nation."

    Since Joseph WAS second in command for some time... there is no reason to doubt... or be surprised... to find these "laws" written somewhere in Egypt's history, even prior to Joseph. Because even during Abraham's day... Egypt was the ruling power and knew of Jah. It was the Pharaoh of Joseph's day who claimed not to know.

    I hope this helps and, again, bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,


  • botchtowersociety

    Maybe his circumcision but how did he hide it from the Egyptians for so long?

    Egyptians practiced circumcision.

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