The two witness rule on child abuse still makes my blood boil

by life is to short 20 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse



    Your back here to play games..

    The WBT$ doesn`t have qualified people to deal with pedophiles..

    If a child complains about sexual abuse,the police should be called and the police should handle it..

    The WBT$ does everything in their power to interfere that process..

    .................. ...OUTLAW

  • InterestedOne

    Although there are many threads on this topic, FWIW, here is one that, while not specifically about those who come forward later in life, I thought brought out some valuable points related to the WT and child abuse:

  • aSphereisnotaCircle

    Stand Firm....... the watchtower claims what you said. and they have also claimed, in writing, that two unrelated accusations will not suffice.

    But this is a silly point to argue, because either way, it is a completely unaceptible way of dealing with the issue.

  • life is to short
    life is to short


    I will try very hard not to be upset here, but are you kidding. Did you not read what the 1995 WT SAID!

    Unless a child has the ability to come forward when he or she is raped at the age of six, seven, eight, nine or ten years of age which most kids cannot do. I know I could not do IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then what they say later in life when they are in their 20's, 30's or 40's is memories.

    So let me walk you through this since it seems so hard for you to grasp. The elders will say well the 1995 WT of November 1st pages 25-29 says that your memories are repressed since you did not come forward when you were raped at the age of 8, or 10 and now that you are 35, now you are coming forward. Why did you wait all of these years? Why now? Why are you doing this to Brother Wonderful now? What is your problem? You have even had Brother Wonderful to you home for meals when it was your turn to feed the speaker and you just last month worked in field service with him and now 25 years after you now CLAIM and allege he raped you when you were 7 to ten years of age! Now, just now you are speaking up. If it was so horrible you would have spoken up years ago.

    Then the elders go to Brother Wonderful who has by then way been promoted to being an elder or MS or pioneer and he looks at you blankly like you are a nut case and says why would I ever hurt you like that. It never happened and you know it this is in front of the elders after they have met with him privately. You just stand there feeling like a fool.

    You know it did and you suspect that it also happened to other kids in the hall too, so you go to them and ask them to help you but they know what you are going through with the elders, they know you are looking bad in front of the whole congregation, that no one is believing you and that you are living a life of hell because of it all. Even if they say that yes Brother Wonderful fondled then or made them before oral sex on him they will not be believed because they were alone when he did it. They are also in their late 30's early 40's maybe they have not even told their mates that they were raped as children.

    No they all tell you Brother Wonderful is truly wonderful he never hurt us. You are crazy like the elders are telling you. You truly wonder if you are going crazy.

    You watch Brother Wonderful at the next meeting picking up a toddler and holder her and insider your heart is breaking because you have no power to stop it. You wish you could die, because you died when he raped you at age 10 inside, but yet you still kept living outside. Brother Wonderful looks over at you while holding the child and similes that smile you know only too well.

    Finally another adult victim you age sees the pain you are in and finally get the courage to speak up. She goes to the elders also and says Brother Wonderful also molested her. The elders ask her the same questions they asked you. Why did you wait so long? What do you have against Brother Wonderful since you waited so long to come forward? How long have you had these memories? How do we as body of elders know they are true memories? How do know they are not repressed memories?

    Brother Wonderful denies he molested this sister also.

    Then they pull out the WT or 1995 and tell both victims that "Since the accusation is denied, that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. The congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person, being the Bible says that there must two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. Even with their now being two of you saying the same thing it still happened 25 or 30 years before and nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without supporting evidence." The elders then tell you in a condescending why "this does not mean that such "memories" are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bibles principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially."

    You leave the elders meeting in a daze. The next meeting you watch the elders backslap Brother Wonderful you even hear the COBE telling him he knows Satan was testing him these last few weeks. You meet for field service and watch the COBE put Brother Wonderful in the same car group with the single sister and her three little girls to work together in service together you feel like throwing up.

    You sit there thinking why did I not come forward when I was ten years old and say Brother Wonderful molested me in service? You hate yourself so much you wish you were dead. None of this is making an sense. This is the Jehovah's true religion. Why is this happening? where is Jehovah?

    One of the elders who was not involved in the committee case but knows everything comes up to you and says Sister LITS you look so sad just remember though to focus on the Kingdom when Jehovah will do away with all crimes, throw your burden on Jehovah, read the Bible more, pray more and just go out in service more. Keep you mind off this think 'happy thoghts.' You look puzzled at him and then he says well sometimes even elders make mistakes. You are even more puzzled. Then he tells you ‘Even if Brother Wonderful is guilty though I am not saying he is' "Does he "get away with it." As it were? Certainly not! The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's hands. "The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgment but as for other men their sins also become manifest later." He then asks you to read 1 Timothy 5:24; Romans 12:19; 14;12 You feel like throwing up and you never want to read the Bible again but you do as you are told like you always have and read the Scriptures not understanding a word of what you have just read because you are in such a daze. The elder then says to you "The book of Proverbs says: "The wicked man dies, his hope perishes." Proverbs 10:28 11:7 Ultimately, Jehovah God and Christ Jesus render everlasting judgment in justice" and he asks you to read 1 Corinthians 4:5 as Brother Wonderful leaves the meeting for field service caring one of the toddler and holding the hand of the eight year little girl of sister single, as he walks by you he winks.

    You wish you were dead but you are still alive to here this elder telling you sometimes all that happens is a person just dies and is never given everlasting life, we just need to leave it all in Jehovah's hands. Jehovah knows what he is doing and sometimes he allow evil to happen.

    You just cannot grasp any of this and nothing is making sense.

    So Standfirm even through as you say the elders "If there is another witness to the same type of sin on the part of the accused, this would be basis for forming a judicial committee."-Flock book, elders' manual, published in 1991. blah, blah, it does not mean a dam thing.


  • flipper

    STANDFIRM- There is usually tons of corroborating evidence supporting child abuse. Most child molesters have committed child abuse in the past. In the case of which Life Is Too Short speaks of - elders knew this particular molester served 10 years of hard time in state prison for molesting his own daughter ! He was allowed to give talks in the congregation, work in service with young childre and single mothers, then this guy ended up getting DFed for the same offense again towards another daughter ! Do you think there is liability on the elders part ? Hell yes there is ! Before you get all JW apologist on us- why don't you do some research and see just HOW big a problem this is in the JW organization ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    Thanks flipper


  • aSphereisnotaCircle

    Lifeistoshort knows what she is talking about, she lived it.

    Standfirm is spouting rules, she/he has never experinced one of these fiascos that elders make victims go through. All he/she knows is what he/she has read or what the society has told him/her. Standfirm has no first hand experience with how the elders deal with these matters.

    I was assaulted by a respected member of the congregation. My family loves me and pretty much no one has any love for my abuser. But no one in my family believes me when i tell them how the elders handled it, they just make excuses. They are in complete denial as to how these things are handled, just like most JWs who have never experinced it themselves.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Yes, people are place on notice that allegations have occurred. This happens every day. I don't care that much about disfellowshipping. My concern is that a KH is a pedophile's fancy with many small children to rape and molest. Rape laws required corroboratin many years ago. Corroboration no longer is needed. The entire circumstances can be viewed. The age of the child, how recent the allegation, does the child provide details a child that age would not know, are there older siblings that may have contamined the child. Men are accused of pedophilia improperly.

    The issue is who has the burden of proof to give adequate notice to the congreation. Elders are not the criminal system. Even without mandatory reporting laws, what decent person gives the benefit of notice to a an adult male able to take care of himself vs. an innocent, vulnerable small child. Men are accused of rape falsely. Yet rapists still go to prison routinely.

    Corroboartion can be defined in many ways. The amount of corroboration needed for notice is llighter than the amount needed for conviction in a court of law. Also, how likely is someone so perverted to bring along an witness to go run to the police so he can be raped in prison by much bigger males. Children tend not so make up this stuff. Every utterance or susciption from a child should be treated with the gravest concern. Elders have no training in the psychology and details of this type of crime. NO training! Giving notice warns the congregation and protects the accused criminal rights.

  • Damn The Watchtower
    Damn The Watchtower

    Common sense dictates that violent crimes committed by a member of the congregation should be reported to the police. If the Governing Body were to put in place this rule it would not only save much heartache but also remove from the elders responsibilities they are not trained to handle. That I recall there is no reference in the Greek Scriptures that addresses how violent acts within the congregation should be handled. In Jesus' day Caesar's soldiers kept order, today the police.

    As for community standing, better for the community to know that Jehovah's Witnesses report charges of child abuse leaving the courts to handle the matter than for the community to hear that Witnesses protect child abusers.

  • Nobleheart

    @ LITS - I just read this thread and your post # 1117 is absolutely powerful. It's so moving reading about the victim's powerlessness and the injustice of the system. It truly makes your blood boil. I'm sorry you lived through it.

    @ A sphereisnotacircle - Really sorry to hear about your experience too!

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