Evolve to survive, yes. Reform for good, no.
DB - of the "thought I could make a differance than sadly realized I was a naive idoit" class
JW's who remain in the organisation but try to reform it - pissing against the wind
by jambon1 54 Replies latest jw friends
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wobble
I agree with the thread title 100%
Don't waste your life trying, get out, lead a happy fulfilling life, that "silent witness" may help a few out, who knows?
At least you will be living, not just existing for some hoped for future situation, the freeing of your loved ones, or the reform of the WT, both of which may never happen.
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XBEHERE
Reform is too high of an expectation for this "religion". They are making changes though slowly. I seen a trend to more progressive thinking since the old members of the GB started dropping like flies the passed 5-10 yrs.
1. No BS (yes book study but it was bullsh*t as well)
2. More practical counsel in WT's instead of go out in service azzwhole
3. Seperating of private bullsh*t from public bullsh*t
4. More and more use of digital media, streaming media. Including talk outlines, forms, elder forms, kms, etc (this would have been unheard of if no new blood was on GB)
I am sure there are more but thats what I can think of now. They are not reforming their doctrines persay but the procedures are changing.
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wobble
They only react to circumstances, they are never prescient, so procedures are changing only to save $$$, doctines only change when $$$ are threatened, i.e they had to change the generation thing, or contributing members would have walked in droves come 2014.
Any hope of reform on the basis of what is right, just, loving, scriptural or following the example of Christ is never going to happen.
For Christians, Christ is King, for the WT the Mighty Dollar is King.
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willyloman
No offense to Willy, but his unsent letter is a good example of the naive, devoted follow who sincerely wants to offer a suggestion or two, having bought into the Watchtowers frequent flip flops and accompanying "we're just imperfect men being guided by J for brighter light...blah, blah".
Glander: Just to clarify, I wrote the letter in 2002. In 2003 I resigned as an elder and within months had walked away from the organization, taking my entire family. We moved into the light and have never looked back, despite the heavy social cost. It's been a good move for all of us.
You're correct that at the time I was a "good example of the naive, devoted fellow who sincerely wants to offer a suggestion or two...." Of course, that once described most of us here on this forum. It's part of the evolutionary process.
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Violia
The best you could get with a WTS reform is a basic mainstream Christian religion who advocates for family values. There are no shortage of them so why bother.
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james_woods
Ray Franz and Dunlap and others truly absolutely tried to patiently, and humbly have them re-consider several of the beliefs and stands on procedures and that proved only lead to eventual disfellowshippings.
This is absolutely correct. I knew Ed Dunlap back in those days - he and Franz really thought that reform would come as an effect of the governing body taking over from the dictatorship of the presidency. I think that their reform efforts went on for at least three years, perhaps longer.
They were both burned by their actual experience. In later years, Dunlap had given up on any kind of organized religion and viewed true religion as a purely personal matter.
These were honest men - but in the end, they truly found that they (like everybody else) meant nothing to the WTBTS power structure.
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slimboyfat
Just because Ray Franz's attempted reforms failed does not mean they were doomed to failure, that he was never going to succeed, or that hardliners were in some sense destined to prevail. According to the facts of the situation, as explained in Ray Franz's books, it is not difficult to imagine that the situation could have played out differently, had just a few key events and confrontations unfolded differently. The hardliners were not an overwhelming majority. They mainly comprised Fred Franz, Ted Jaracz and Albert Schroeder with a couple of sycophants like Karl Klein and Lloyd Barry. Liberal reforms would apparently have been welcomed in the 1970s by people like Ray Franz, Lyman Swingle, Daniel Sydlik, and a few other soft liberals who could be swayed one way or the other like John Barr and Carey Barber. Not to mention much of the writing department who were not on the governing body but wrote most of the literature. Ray Franz shows how fine the balance was by describing how on a number of occasions reforms were either passed or curtailed purely because one or two members of the governing body were away on trips and the balance was tipped one way or the other. In fact the plot to to remove Ray Franz itself was hatched while he was away on such a trip. Had a few key people been influenced differently at certain moments it could have played out very differently and the organization might have altered in significant ways. The fact that it did not turn out that way has less to do with deep structural causes than with personality politics at crucial junctures in the organization's history. Therefore it is not unreasonable to suspect that another such window for change is likely to present itself again at some point, and that the outcome is not predetermined.
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OUTLAW
Therefore it is not unreasonable to suspect that another such window for change is likely to present itself again at some point,
and that the outcome is not predetermined......SBF
Any JW who cross`s the WBT$ will be Crushed..
That is the History of the WBT$..
You don`t have a Shred of Evidence to the Contrary..
So you need to use the word "Evidently"..
Therefore Evidently it is not unreasonable to suspect that another such window for change
is likely to present itself again at some point, and Evidently that the outcome is not predetermined.
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...OUTLAW -
Mickey mouse
Have any other cults reformed to become benign and mainstream? Do you have any examples sbf?
