I have question about the new light on the statues toes

by Igot2bme 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • watson

    Stillin, the clay and iron thing related to the Anglo American world power is pointed to by the Governing Body/Faithful and Discreet Slave/Writing Committee, whatever, as this:

    With all of the civil liberties, legal stuff, humanities, etc., these two great powers can no longer act in a way to really get things done. They have become ineffective. Thus, a very brittle mix.

    That's what I got out of it.

  • Igot2bme

    @TDaze- Thats about what I gathered from it. It's just another call for URGENCY!...again

    @TotallyADD- Speaking of changing of teachings, I just looked up the image in the Daniel book and the Anglo-American world being positioned mid calf to ankle on the image power and the clay feet with iron represented the politically divided world governments. I then compared to that if the image in the May 2011 Awake and now the feet are completely representative of Anglo-American world power. With changing their teachings constantly it just proves to me that they don't know what their talking about!

    Wantingtruth ...I truly hope this may be understood.

    @Wantingtruth-It sure is, thank you. :)

    @BlackSheep- Thank you for the advice, and for the downloadable material, I appreciate it!

    Stillin-... My problem with that is, first of all, what's the iron and clay supposed to mean? Britain and the USA do just fine alongside each other. Second, isn't the modern-day organization supposed to be global in its' scope? So why say that Britain and America have any special place in the bigger scheme of things relating to God's people? These two nations are just two more out of the entire world.

    @Stillin-I have the same questions as well. I understood the bits of iron to be the politically divided governments of the world, now it is all about Britain and America? I am so glad to be able to have stepped back and see the flip flopping of beliefs going on in the Org.

    @Vachi 8 He is-LOL! Thats a good one!

    @JWfacts- Good Point, I will do that!

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    There is a very relevent article on Wikipedia that your son might enjoy discussing with you.

    Decline of the Western Roman Empire

  • ThomasCovenant

    For an explanation of the history of this new light old light regurgitated shite check out the opening post by Mad Sweeney on this topic.

    To summarize, the toes mean nothing. At least for now.


  • ThomasCovenant

    19 Years from 1959 - 1978
    Watchtower 15th May 1959 page 313 para 36
    As the iron section of the symbolic image started off with the Roman Empire and led on to the Anglo-American dual world power, the firmness and strength of the iron would represent the hardness and toughness of their world control and rule. But what of the ten toes in which the symbolic image terminated? This feature showed that at the time of the end of this symbolic image the remnant of the Roman or sixth world power would vie with the Anglo-American or seventh world power and that there would be other independent political governments associated with those competing powers. The number ten being a Biblical number symbolizing earthly completeness, the ten toes picture all such coexisting powers and governments.
    Watchtower 15th June 1961 page 358
    What about the final part of the image, the feet and ten toes of iron and clay? In the Bible the number ten is used to indicate earthly completeness. Thus the ten toes picture all the coexisting political powers and governments during the time of the end of this symbolic image

    7 Years from 1978 - 1985
    Watchtower 15th June 1978 page 13-15
    There does not appear to be any prophetic significance to the image's having ten toes. This is a natural human feature, just as the image has two arms, two legs, and so forth.
    the Anglo-American World Power must be included in the "iron." Well along into the time of the end, it is still the world power, even though strong competitors have emerged.
    I To reach the ascendancy, the Roman and Anglo-American World Powers have indeed been like iron in ‘crushing and shattering' other kingdoms and peoples.
    Of course, during the 19th and 20th centuries, a number of developments have taken place on the world scene to weaken the ironlike rule of the Anglo-American World Power. Revolutionary socialistic groups have developed to weaken the structure, influence and force of this Seventh World Power. It is said that "the kingdom itself will prove to be divided . . . forasmuch as you beheld the iron mixed with moist clay." It would come "to be mixed with the offspring of mankind." So the "clay" of the image would represent the proletarian elements that develop as a result of the people's rising up against established authority. Through labor unions, demonstrations, strikes and other protest activity, the common people have sought to undermine the traditional, capitalistic style of government manifested in the Anglo-American World Power, along with its sphere of influence.
    The "clay" does not represent a world power developing, only a weakening factor.

    26 Years from 1985 - 2011
    Watchower 1st July 1985 page 31

    What is symbolized by "the feet and the toes" of the "immense image" described at Daniel 2:31-45?
    Various views have been expressed about the ten "toes." But since "ten" is often used in the Bible to signify completeness as to things on earth, the ten "toes" appear logically to represent the entire global system of rulership at the culmination of the days. It is against the feet and toes of the image that ‘God's Kingdom comes,' grinding to powder the final manifestations of man-rule. How happy we can be that the peaceful, prosperous rule of Christ's Kingdom will then fill the entire earth!-
    Insight Book page 1187
    the ten toes apparently represent the entire global system of rulership at the time when God's Kingdom is established and takes action against the worldly powers

    Since 2011 Convention
    Back to Anglo American world power. Toes mean nothing

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    After a conversation today I second the "toes mean nothing" for now.

  • carla

    Thanks to Thomascovenant for posting those! marked

  • wobble

    It is interesting to read the exegesis of these verses from Daniel by Bible commentators and scholars who have no connection to any apocalyptic end-time cults or religious movements.

    To a man, or woman, almost, they agree that Daniel was written around the 2nd century B.C , and that this "prophecy" is no such thing, but is made to appear so by the way that "Daniel" writes, and the various parts of the Image are the various political powers down to the writers time.

    Nothing to do with 21st century world, not the toes, not any of it.

    Read these for yourself and you will soon get rid of any latent fear that these false prophets of the W.T, and other end-time groups, have anything at all to base their crazy ideas on.

    See Leolaiah's posts on the thread "The image of Daniel Chapter 2 " for example.

  • aristeas

    THANK YOU, ThomasCovenant! That was valuable.

  • ThomasCovenant


    the ten toes picture all such coexisting powers and governments. (WT 15 May 1959 )

    There does not appear to be any prophetic significance to the image's having ten toes. (WT 15 June 1978)

    the ten "toes" appear logically to represent the entire global system of rulership (WT 1 July 1985 )

    Toes mean nothing (2011 Convention)

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