A good argument well won

by DD10 23 Replies latest jw experiences

  • DD10

    Hi Guy's

    This is my first post on this site - I've just browsed for a few months. I've not been to the KH or remained in contact with my ex JW "freinds" for a number of years now. I'm one that along with my wife and kids just fadded away, however the rest of my family are still JWs.

    I have a number of issues with the teachings etc and will share one with you an would like your comments.

    I was always taught the responce to make when asked the question on FS "why does God let all the wickedness and suffering happen?" To which i would roughly reply "because God has to be seen as being a fair God. He couldn't just eliminate Satan he had to show the rest of the angelic creatures that once his sovereignty was challenged by Satan (the Adam & Eve bit in the garden of eden) he had to let things occur/ let man rule himself without Gods help and by this he would prove that man couldn't rule himself, then God would put an end to man's/Satans rule".

    Now this has niggled me for a while now. Firstly correct me if I'm wrong but this was an argument in heaven between Jehovah & Satan. The Angels etc were the ones that needed to be shown that this was going to be a fair contest and that Satan would be given the chance to challenge Jehovah.

    When Satan threw down this challenge to Jehovah - Jehovah knew the end outcome of all this. He knew Satan could not rule the world along with mankind - but he had to be fair and give Satan the chance.

    So mankind due to an argument up in the heavens has had to put up with death, desease, wars, "natural disasters" and so on..... and Jehovah knew the outcome all along. But wait - Jehovah lovingly provided us with a lifeline. If we worship him then we will live forever on a paradise earth away from all what we endure now - away from Satan. But wait - Satan gets out again in a 1000 years (the 1000 years in a bottomless pit will feel like 2 minutes to Satan) to roam around and test us again - eh?!

    How much testing does man need and how much testing has Satan got and those Angels take some convincing. We had the flood, were going to get armagedon, then to cap if off we'll get the 1000 year test.

    So basically due to an argument in heaven (of which the outcome was already known) we have had all of this taken out on us so that Jehovah can prove his point. Well done Jehovah a good argument well won even though its not finished yet.

    (all this and I've not even mentioned us all getting punished for Adam & Eve's sin!)...............

  • steve2

    DD10, I agree wholeheartedly. When we allow ourselves to stand back and look at certain doctrines/teachings, their craziness stands out. Each time I hear a news item about more death and destruction on the planet I think, "All this to vindicate a vain god's name???". Keep posting - your first post is absolutely stunning in its composition!

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi DD10

    Welcome to the forum.

    I guess such silliness is bound to happen if you try to make sense of a book that ..... well .... doesn't make sense.

  • ThomasCovenant

    Hello DD10

    Thanks for joining and posting.

    With logic like yours I suspect there is very little prospect of you returning to the club.


  • sizemik

    DD10 . . . welcome to the Forum.

    You make a very valid observation . . . thousands of years of death, suffering and mayhem (and plenty more to come). . . just to prove a point. A slightly callous way of establishing one's credentials.

    You might find a recent thread along similar lines interesting . . .


  • dm6

    DD10 very nicely said, so the next time a witness of family member questions you, rather than telling them what you used t say, you can tell them its a all a load of nonesense

  • Alfred

    Welcome DD10... You hit the nail right on the head... I look forward to reading more of your posts...

  • StoneWall

    DD10 quoting something you said in your opening post I'll show you a easier way to blow that argument completely out of the water.

    DD10 said,

    he had to let things occur/ let man rule himself without Gods help and by this he would prove that man couldn't rule himself, then God would put an end to man's/Satans rule".

    If this is so, then why did God interfere with man when he was ruling himself and accomplishing great things at the Tower of Babel?

    Even in the New World Translation (JW's bible) look how it is worded at Genesis 11:5-9

    "And Jehovah proceeded to go down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men had built. 6 After that Jehovah said: “Look! They are one people and there is one language for them all, and this is what they start to do. Why, now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them. 7 Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.” 8 Accordingly Jehovah scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city. 9 That is why its name was called Ba′bel, because there Jehovah had confused the language of all the earth, and Jehovah had scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth."

    Notice how it doesn't say they were fighting or starving or anything else that would reflect bad on them as a people. They "evidently" were working together as one people and united in a common cause. So God went down there and confused their language so that they wouldn't be able to attain everything else. Notice how it even says, there is nothing that is unattainable for them.

    Ask any JW why God interfered here if the issue was to see if they could rule themselves.

    So it seems that men were governing themselves pretty good at this particular time. And God did intervene if this scripture is true and accurate.

    Edited to add: And welcome to the forum. Enjoyed your first post and like your line of reasoning in it about all the test and how many more times are we going to be tested because of a supposed argument in heaven. Hope to hear much more from you in the future.

  • DesirousOfChange

    DD, add to that, that mankind has never had the opportunity to prove their ability without the wicked influence of Satan & the demons. Plus, just at the time that mankind reaches their greatest period of accomplishment in science & technology, Satan & Company is cast down from heaven TO THE EARTH. Why was mankind subjected to the wicked influence? Did they even have a chance with that to deal with?

  • Ding

    Welcome, DD10!

    The WTS uses this "vindicating God's name" concept to convince JWs that they are they only true religion because they are the only ones "honoring God's name."

    The idea that the verdict on God's fairness is in the hands of angels or human beings is completely contrary to the biblical view that God is the ultimate judge of everything.

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