Never discuss doctrine with a cult member.
Running into a brick wall- conversations without logic
I usually say something to the effect of, "I believe the truth. Jesus said he is the truth and that there is one truth. JWs say they are the truth. Who is lying?" I wrote about the the repeated demands of worship by the Society in my paper "Do Christians Have Human Leaders?" Maybe you can find some talking points in it. Don't expect a lot, though. JWs are the modern equivalent of the Flat Earth Society.
The frustration you experience is common ......... JW's don't value people who are not practicing witness's in good standing. You can't be a 'bystander witness', someone who stands around and doesn't get involved. No matter how decent a person you are or how successful or how many good deeds you do your achievements will not bridge that feeling of being dismissed by them. At the extreme end there is shunning but even without that you can sense that the relationship has changed and what you have to say about anything is of small interest to them. Books, movies, politics, science, religion your opinions are not going to matter, because you stopped being a witness.
At the heart of my arguments, which were meaningless to them, was my desire to get them to see me as a person who had value. That I could think for myself and that our disagreement should not change how we felt about one another. After some forty years my parents and sibling have passed away.
I have had a good life and have a great family and wonderful friends but there's a dead space in my heart when I think of my parents and sister. All of the missed opportunites to share our lives, joyful visits etc.
What he said.
yet they show me love, they dont touch whats the big issue
What is the big issue? That you insist that they convert to your beliefs? They don't want to.
The big issue is that they show you love and you do the same. The most important thing in your relationship is fine. Leave it at that and try not to bother them so long as they extend you the same courtesy.
People insisting that I convert to their beliefs were paramount in pushing me away from god & religion altogther.
I disliked such people with a vengeance at the time but I am so grateful to them today for the true freedom I have in what became a good life for me & my famliy. :)
A lot of good points, are steven hassans books available on pdf form and how much are they?
simon17: If you mean by converting to showing them that they are a false religion then yeah, if you know something is wrong isn't it normal to worn the other person? But jw's know better than using logic or common sense, now I can speak from a christian or agnostic perspective, I can say that jesus is the way an not a organization or I could say that jesus made a lot of references to the book of the dead, they believe in the bible therefore its more effective to use the bible as my sword.
This isn't just about converting, you and I know this religion is bull and its not going to last, and from whats going on watchtowers and conventions I dont like were this is going, I think the virgen old farts know this and are doing their best to make a quick buck, but at the cost of shunning others and in the future "spiritually weak" jw's, people have died for this religion from their teachings, what we dont need now is another jonestown, you get the idea.
Tuesday there was an earthquake in melbourne, at the dinner table they asked me if i knew about the quake, i said yes and then they said about being prepared blabla (for a normal earthquake), they aspect me to wake up like they were right all along, that they are the only religion that speaks of these things as sign that the end is near and that they are right, but they say these things without actually saying it, its like incoded language, thats what bugs me, if this really was the true religion than what is the big deal in actually speaking, communicating like normal human beings? Let me read this franz book and ill tell you whats wrong with it, no this never happens and there is not a scripture that supports their idea of shunning information because its a cult and with all cults they dig themselves deeper and deeper underground.
ambersun: thats right they dont understand but they dont want to understand, but as you say it could be worse
black Sheep and mad sweeney: I had tried that in the past and it works but they know my agenda, my fault.
Quandry: thx I have it easy, I could only imagen what it would be if I was bathtised, my faded cousin is doing worse and he's not even an apostate, being shun by his dumb sisters and parents.
Giordano: sorry to hear