ABS, thanks. Are you sure it was July 15 2011? I checked that June, July and August and couldn't find anything.
Need help with some research please
There is an extensive article on d/f at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php
There is a little bit of leeway regarding children. For example, if he lives with you, you could still speak to him. However, at 18 a child would probably get pressure not to live with a d/f parent, particularly in shared custody situations. If he does not live with you, he could speak if a serious matter arises. So you probably need to clarify that his ability to associate with you would be severley curtailed. Here are some quotes:
- "Suppose, for example, that the only son of an exemplary Christian couple leaves the truth. Preferring "the temporary enjoyment of sin" to a personal relationship with Jehovah and with his godly parents, the young man is disfellowshipped. ... the Bible says "to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator... They also realise that the word "anyone" in this verse includes family members not living under their roof. ... Our hearts go out to those parents. After all, their son had a choice, and he chose to pursue his unchristian lifestyle rather than to continue to enjoy close association with his parents and other fellow believers. The parents, on the other hand, had no say in the matter. ... But what will those dear parents do? Will they obey Jehovah's clear direction? Or will they rationalize that they can have regular association with the disfellowshipped son and call it, "necessary family business"? In making their decision, they must not fail to consider how Jehovah feels about what they are doing. ... Today, Jehovah does not immediately execute those who violate his laws. He lovingly gives them an opportunity to repent from their unrighteous works. How would Jehovah feel, though, if the parents of an unrepentant wrongdoer kept putting Him to the test by having unnecessary association with their disfellowshipped son or daughter?" Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 pp.31,32 Click here for scan
- "Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes for several reasons. ... In other cases, the disfellowshipped relative may be living outside the immediate family circle and home. Although there might be a need for limited contact on some rare occasion to care for a necessary family matter, any such contact should be kept to a minimum."Keep Yourself in God's Love (2008) pp.207,208
- After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact."Kingdom Ministry Aug 2002 p.3
DoC, perfect, thanks!
If there is something in the new elders manual that would be awesome as well. I think I have a copy of that as well.
I think the latest July 15 Watchtower edition is the closest thing to encouraging shunning da/df family members. As far as I know they don't really tell people to shun family per se but they present shunning as a loving arrangement to get df members to return to the borg thus some family members chose to partially or totally shun their df/da relatives.
There was a time that if a child resided with the jw parent that the child would not be allowed to see the minor child (under 18). When the courts became more and more involved, the WTS decided that flouting Caesar's laws was a bad witness...not the same as doing such regarding a transfusion.
Most advice about custody revolves the non-custodial parent being a non-jw rather than df'd/da'd.
*** w86 11/1 pp. 27-28 pars. 7-9 Family Problems Solved by Bible Counsel ***
7 Of course, a law court often grants visitation rights to the parent who no longer has custody of the child. Can these be respected while still protecting the child’s heart? Yes, and as appropriate, the child should show due respect to an unbelieving parent. If during the visit the unbeliever engages in unchristian conduct, rather than build hatred by condemning that parent, the believer can explain to the child that God has set standards of conduct in the Bible and that "each of us will render an account for himself to God," the final Judge. (Romans 14:12) Yet, make clear that such conduct is not to be imitated. Discreetly show that though some people do not live by these standards, in time many change because of seeing a Christian example in the child and the ex-mate. In this way, it may be possible for the child to have a measure of respect for that parent. A divorced couple’s differences about religion should not prevent a parent from affecting the child in a positive way. The Christian parent will "let [his or her] reasonableness become known to all men." (Philippians 4:5) What, though, if the unbeliever tries to undermine godly training?
8 Preparation for the visits is the key! One Christian mother whose ex-husband became an apostate reported: "Before the visit, I would study with the children about how their conduct would be regarded by Jehovah. We would act out situations. I would say: ‘If your father says this or that, how will you answer?’" Another Christian who was divorced because she became a Witness adds: "Before [my two teenagers] leave for their weekend visit with their father, we say a prayer asking Jehovah to be with them and to help them to witness to their dad, especially by their fine conduct."
9 An unbelieving parent with visitation rights may try to woo the child with lavish gifts, expensive entertainment, and other recreational pleasures. Jochebed, the mother of Moses, (and Amram if he was still living) knew what would face Moses when he was turned over to Pharaoh’s daughter. So she no doubt applied herself in shaping his sense of values while he was still with her. (Exodus 2:1-10) Despite facing the tempting "treasures of Egypt," Moses made his own choice to follow godly principles. He "esteemed" his spiritual privileges as real riches! (Hebrews 11:23-26) Christian parents should similarly prepare their children to meet such temptations by discussing Scriptural material that focuses on spiritual treasures. Children often see through the shallow motive of a parent who would attempt to buy their affection.—Proverbs 15:16, 17.
The Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act in the United States says: "A parent not granted custody of the child is entitled to reasonable visitation rights unless the court finds, after a hearing, that visitation would endanger the child’s physical health or significantly impair his emotional development."
*** km 8/02 p. 4 pars. 9-11 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped ***
Relatives Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.—See also The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.
10 The Watchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) . . . What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household."—The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.
11 As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring ‘leaven’ into the home?—Gal. 5:9."
JWfacts, perfect, thanks bro. I never thought I would need the watchtower BS publications ever again...
Blondie! Awesome! I had a feeling you would come up with something!
Just make sure that you don't make any statements that are not absolutely 100%, irrefutably, correct.
Coercion is not the same as a rule.
If you state it is a rule and he finds out it isn't, you lose credibility until you can come up with a reference to bail yourself out of the crap.
Be upfront and admit mistakes if you make any. Don't try to plaster over them. That's their job.
You would be better off getting him to do the research to back up his position. Then, if you are not 100% correct in your understanding ........ you were just asking
blacksheep, I rarely say anything unless I am sure :)
in time many change because of seeing a Christian examplein the child and the ex-mate. In this way, it may be possible for the child to have a measure of respect for that parent. A divorced couple’s differences about religion should not prevent a parent from affecting the child in a positive way. The Christian parent will "let [his or her] reasonableness become known to all men."
What a joke piece of lying crap!
Bullshit factor 10!
The JW teens are completely clueless about shunning rules...