Anyone else get the feeling that he's trying to convince himself?
The imperfections of the elder
by outsmartthesystem 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Witness My Fury
For someone who claims to have actually read CoC, ISoCF, and the Gentile Times Reconsidered he sure does seem to MISremember ALOT. .....i.e doesn't know jack shit what he is talking about (as usual).
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cantleave
WHEN I WROTE BEST POST - IT WAS A BLANK!!!
He obviously cut n pasted after I left that comment!
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
In your post you say
“While Rutherford and others had speculated back that the beginning of the antitypical jubilee would occur in 1925, which jubilee corresponded to Jesus' 1,000-year reign, but this wasn't a prediction, nor a case of misleading 7 million people (or whatever number of Witnesses there were back in 1925). What was hoped in the lead up to 1925 was merely an expectation that was unrealized.”
What do you think about what was written in ” Light, Book One, by Judge J.F. Rutherford. Published in 1930 by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Commentary on the book of Revelation.” ?(This I found on the internet) (Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly)
Page 135
“Exactly ten years, to the day, from the beginning of the World War the message “Civilization Doomed” was delivered in support of the “Indictment”, which time marked the last typical jubilee; and, showing that the antitypical jubilee must begin in 1925, the message announced the doom of Satan’s organization and that the time had come when the people should go free. The year 1925 marked the due time for the great jubilee, and the announcement was made in due course. But the world rulers failed to heed God’s message and to “proclaim liberty throughout all the land”.”
This was published 5 years after 1925.
In the book “Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand!” Page 138.
In commenting on Revelation 8:10,11 Where it says “And the third angel blew his trumpet.”
It says, “No doubt at the direction of the angel that sounded the third trumpet, a forceful resolution was there adopted and later 50 million copies were distributed as a tract. It was published under the title Ecclesiastics Indicted.”
By reading the “Light, Book one” we find the message given at this convention “Civilization Doomed” In support of the “Indictment” which was published as a tract (pictured on Page 141 of the book Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand) was tied to the 1925 Jubilee teaching.
“the message announced the doom of Satan’s organization and the time had come when the people should go free” (Light Book One)
Do you think that this was at the direction of an angel as suggested in the “Revelation Its Grand Climax Hand!”?
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Witness My Fury
He's Watchtarded remember so don't expect any honest analysis or discussion on any point whatsoEVER.
Expect more of this: circular reasoning, bait and switch, topic derailment, evaisive, dodging, convoluted, cherry picking, Looooooooong self agrandising unprovable nonsensical posts with the sole aim of making him look smart and you look dumb (this only occurs in his own deluded worldview of course).
We on the other hand who have removed our WTS blinkers can see the reality of the situation which is that HE is one who looks dumb and dumber and continually dumberer for as long as he continues to not recognise that he is under mind control in a mind control cult.
(Yes those were references to the films of the same names, not me being thick.)
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Listener
Wow, that is a very interesting The Finger. I wonder how many of the other trumpets that were supposedly sounded were also giving wrong messages.
As you point out they were sounded by an Angel, one wouldn't expect the message to be partially wrong.
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djeggnog
@outsmartthesystem wrote:
The end was originally supposed to have come in 1914. 1975. Within the lifetime of the generation that saw the events of 1914. The "men of old" were supposed to have been resurrected in 1925. Nothing happened. And this isn’t misleading?
@djeggnog wrote:
No, I don't recall any such prophecies being taught by Jehovah's Witnesses, and you are here repeating yourself as to what you provide as one "example" of our having misled 7 million people, your reference to 1975. While Rutherford and others had speculated back that the beginning of the antitypical jubilee would occur in 1925, which jubilee corresponded to Jesus' 1,000-year reign, but this wasn't a prediction, nor a case of misleading 7 million people (or whatever number of Witnesses there were back in 1925). What was hoped in the lead up to 1925 was merely an expectation that was unrealized. Can you do any better than this? Frankly, speaking for myself, I do not believe that I have not been misled by anyone.
@The Finger:
What do you think about what was written in " Light, Book One, by Judge J.F. Rutherford. Published in 1930 by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Commentary on the book of Revelation." ?(This I found on the internet) (Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly)
I have no thoughts that I'm prepared to share with you about an old book. Rutherford died on January 8, 1942, roughly 69 years ago, so whatever the reasons were for what he wrote died when he died as a man here on earth. One thing I do know is that none of what he wrote had been received under inspiration from God, which is the case for all of the publications produced by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. I never knew Judge Rutherford, but I understand that he was a zealous proclaimer of the good news, but having the benefit of the hindsight that he didn't have, I don't agree with many of the things he wrote when he was alive.
We will always know the things on which he and his predecessor, Pastor Russell, were wrong since we can always refer to the books that were released to the public during their stewardship over the Society, but I do not pretend to be able, nor will I try to defend any wrong viewpoints that these men had when they were alive, and if they were alive today, I'm pretty sure that they would be make the necessary adjustments so as not to continue defending such wrong viewpoints either.
In the book "Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand!" Page 138.
In commenting on Revelation 8:10,11 Where it says "And the third angel blew his trumpet."
It says, "No doubt at the direction of the angel that sounded the third trumpet, a forceful resolution was there adopted and later 50 million copies were distributed as a tract. It was published under the title Ecclesiastics Indicted."
By reading the "Light, Book one" we find the message given at this convention "Civilization Doomed" In support of the "Indictment" which was published as a tract (pictured on Page 141 of the book Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand) was tied to the 1925 Jubilee teaching....
Do you think that this was at the direction of an angel as suggested in the "Revelation Its Grand Climax Hand!"?
I understand Revelation 8:10, 11, to be referring to is the effect this "star" (Christendom) came to have on the waters of truth, which waters were turned into "Wormword" and led to the spiritual deaths of many. Frankly, I don't have any thoughts regarding either of the Light books that were published under Rutherford's stewardship to share with you. I don't care about the thoughts of Thomas Jefferson or Abraham Lincoln or Dwight Eisenhower either; these men are all of them dead and their thoughts, whatever they may have been, died with them, although the writings they left behind may now be subject to interpretation.
As to how Jehovah's Witnesses today would interpret the meaning of Revelation 8:10, 11, if you have a copy of the book Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand!, you can go to chapter 21 and, starting at page 136, read paragraphs 28 through 42. Reference is made there to the fall of Christendom's clergy after 1919 when those 'having the work of bearing witness to Jesus' (Revelation 12:17) issued a tract, which exposed such poisonous doctrines, like the trinity, called "Ecclesiastics Indictment" that was released at a convention held in 1924. Just as Christendom offers its own Bible commentaries with which you may or may not agree, the Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand! book is a commentary on the book of Revelation, which book contains the interpretations of Jehovah's Witnesses, and with some of them you may or may not agree.
Contrary to what things apostate Christendom preaches, Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to preach what things God's word urges all mankind to consider before the end of the system of things arrives, such as the importance of their becoming reconciled with God through Christ by exercising faith in his name as Redeemer, and getting baptized, apart from which no one will be saved. (Mark 16:16)
@djeggnog
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Listener
djeggnog wrote
Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to preach what things God's word urges all mankind to consider before the end of the system of things arrives, such as the importance of their becoming reconciled with God through Christ by exercising faith in his name as Redeemer, and getting baptized, apart from which no one will be saved. (Mark 16:16)
Yes they do and so do other religions however they go beyond that teaching and interpret the bible as they see it and declare they only they have the truth.
They self proclaim that the third trumpet was blown in 1925 and declare what the message was and as demonstrated from the quotes above, included a false message. Yet the blowing of the third trumpet was done by an angel and so the message should not have been partly false. In this instance there can be no excuse for 'the light getting brighter' or that it was mans error.
As they were the only ones blowing the trumpet at this time and that message was partly false then one can only conclude that the sounding of the trumpet did not occur then. They still hold on to this teaching today, that all the trumpets began to be blown around that decade.
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thetrueone
Quite the coincidence that all of these false proclamations are coming from a religious publishing house.
Bullshit that attracts the publics attention and defined as a message from god himself.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
"Contrary to what things apostate Christendom preaches, Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to preach what things God's word urges all mankind to consider before the end of the system of things arrives, such as the importance of their becoming reconciled with God through Christ by exercising faith in his name as Redeemer, and getting baptized, apart from which no one will be saved. (Mark 16:16)"
As much as I would like to agree with you I can't. I think what Jehovah's Witnesses history shows is something more than this.
This is what it says on the official JW web site.
THEIR NAME
Jehovah's Witnesses? Yes, that is the way they refer to themselves. It is a descriptive name, indicating that they bear witness concerning Jehovah, his Godship, and his purposes.”
This part about "and his purposes"
In 1974 this book was published.
“God’s Eternal Purpose Now Triumphing for Man’s Good”
Published by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania 1974.
This book was the one that had the date of the beginning of the 7th creative day as 4026 BCE, and made mention of the book Divine Plan of the Ages.
It said this on Page 10.
“This book attained a circulation of more than six million copies, in a number of languages. Its circulation ceased in the year 1929 C.E. For one thing, it focused the attention of its readers on the Bible and showed that the Living God is progressive.”
The Watchtower of August 15 th 1974 Page 507 in the footnote said.
"In 1943 the Watch Tower Society's book "The Truth Shall Make You Free" did away with the nonexistent extra 100 years in the period of the Judges and place the end of 6,000 years of man's existence in the 1970's.
Do you see a connection Djeggnog? Do you see what I mean?