No Speaka Da English? No Live In England!

by Englishman 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Should the UK toughen up on it's immigration policies? Should immigrants be able to speak English? This is clipped from today's Guardian:

    Citizenship tests for immigrants

    The home secretary, David Blunkett, today unveiled plans for compulsory citizenship exams. Mark Oliver looks at the issues thrown up by the evolving government approach to immigrants

    Thursday February 7, 2002

    What has happened?
    Mr Blunkett today launched a package of proposals for new legislation to shake up the asylum system. Launching a white paper, he said he also planned to introduce an oath or "citizens pledge" for applicants to help them embrace British values, laws and customs.

    As well as having to take English language lessons, the 60,000 people who apply for British citizenship each year will have to study British politics and culture and take an exam on the ways of British life.

    Why is the issue controversial?
    Some people claim that the government is trying to foist British culture onto immigrants, potentially at the expense of their own cultures. This debate has been raging for several months - but sharpened in focus today on less-anticipated proposals aimed at trying to curb "sham marriages".

    The white paper says: "There has been a tradition of families originating from the Indian subcontinent wanting to bring spouses from arranged marriages to live with them in the UK."

    Mr Blunkett said the probation period for new marriages would be doubled to two years in a bid to detect sham relationships. He said the hope was that people in Asian and Muslim communities entered voluntary arranged marriages with people already living in Britain.

    He said he hoped he was dealing with the issue sensitively, but the news of the plans drew instant hostility from some sections of the Asian community. In 2000, more than 38,000 people were granted the right to live in the UK through marriage.

    What do the critics of the asylum proposals say about them?
    Some on the left find the idea of any enforced assimilation into British culture unpalatable. Comparisons have been made between the new plans and Lord Tebbit's notorious "cricket test" - he said that you could not be British but support other countries, such as India or Pakistan, at cricket.

    Mr Blunkett, though, said the plans had nothing to do with cricket. He said: "It has to do with an understanding of the society, of the world that you are coming into."

    Why does the government place so much importance on the learning of English?
    Mr Blunkett said migrants fluent in English were 20% more likely to get work and that this would be encouraged by asking applicants for naturalisation to demonstrate certain standards of English.

    The priority, reflected in the proposals, is to establish a way of admitting unskilled migrants into the country to try to stem the trade in illegal immigration. The Blair government is consistently pricked by stories in newspapers, particularly the Daily Mail, decrying Britain's "soft touch" on the asylum issue.

    Why are the "culture" classes said to be needed?
    The government is keen to promote greater social cohesion among different cultures - a mission redoubled by last summer's riots in northern towns. Mr Blunkett believes that the proposals would help combat racism.

    The exact content of the required knowledge of Britain is yet to be defined. Those who complete the classes will also be asked to swear a new oath as part of a citizenship ceremony to mark their new membership of British society.

    What would the citizenship ceremonies be like?
    On completion of their courses, successful asylum seekers will take part in citizenship ceremonies, broadly like those in the US in style but without the "flag waving", Mr Blunkett said. The ceremonies would be conducted by registration officers at register offices or other community centres or schools.

    The home secretary said the ceremonies were necessary so that becoming a British passport holder will not just be a "piece of paper arriving in a brown envelope alongside the gas bill".

    The new oath will retain a pledge of allegiance to the Queen and her heirs, but will add: "I will respect the rights and freedoms of the United Kingdom. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen."

    What else was in the white paper?
    The wide-ranging white paper, entitled Secure Borders, Safe Haven, also proposes setting up new "overseas gateways" where genuine asylum seekers can apply without having to make perilous journeys to enter the UK illegally.

    It would be open to "certified refugees in the need of protection" and operated with the United Nations high commission for refugees, said Mr Blunkett.

    Is there anything in the white paper about asylum holding centres?
    Yes. Mr Blunkett reaffirmed his commitment to creating a four tier system of accommodation centres to house asylum seekers.

    He pledged a 40% increase in spaces at the controversial secure removal centres - where failed asylum seekers are locked up before being put on a plane home - boosting spaces to 4,000 by next spring.

    Posted by Englishman.

    Truth exists;only falsehood has to be invented. -Georges Braque

  • picosito
    picosito

    Fuck yes, they should speak English or a REASONABLE facsimile of.

  • freeman
    freeman

    Yes they should speak English, or at the very least American

    Freeman

  • gilwarrior
    gilwarrior

    My parents have lived in the US for almost thirty years and they still need me to translate sometimes! It drives me nutz!

    "I have so much love to give, but no one to give it to."

    William H. Macy - "Magnolia"

  • picosito
    picosito

    Hey Freeman, d'ya mean "Mer'cun"?

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    I agree, I think a person coming into a new country should learn the native language. It's getting harder to find work here in the US if you can't speak spanish. They are taking over the US. Two of my neighboors are spanish, with about three or four families in each house. In a decade or two there will be more spanish speaking people here than english. This globalization of the economy I think will bring the standard of living down for the advanced countries and not do much for the third world countries.

    Ken P.

  • fodeja
    fodeja
    I agree, I think a person coming into a new country should learn the native language.

    So far, I agree. That's a fair requirement for citizenship: you should be able to make yourself understood. No need for perfection at this stage, but basic communication should be possible.

    "Culture" tests are simply idiotic, though, as most of the native citizens probably wouldn't pass them either! And what exactly is British (or German, or French, or Spanish, or Swedish, or whatever) culture anyway? In the case of US culture which is inherently multiethnic, it would be even harder. Those tests are forcing a certain, narrow and of course highly subjective view of "acceptable culture" on people. This bizarre idea is coming up all over Europe these days, unfortunately.

    It's getting harder to find work here in the US if you can't speak spanish. They are taking over the US. Two of my neighboors are spanish, with about three or four families in each house. In a decade or two there will be more spanish speaking people here than english.
    And what's the problem with that?

    Are you saying that they cannot speak English at all, or do you feel threatened by the fact that they speak Spanish among each other and you don't hear any English around?

    In the first case, I'd agree with your concerns. Integration (which is not the same thing as assimilation!) is something both sides must work on, and learning your host country's language is not only a practical benefit, but also a signal that you really want to be part of a community (again, it doesn't mean you have to give up your own culture!).

    In the latter case, well -- to be honest, I don't feel the slightest little bit sorry for Americans (or actually, citizens of any country) who feel uncomfortable when they're surrounded by people speaking another language. If you're too lazy or simply unwilling to learn a foreign language, it's your own damn problem, and you've deliberately chosen to remain ignorant. Move into a WASP-only gated community and stop whining. Most people in non-English speaking countries are completely used to learning at least(!) one foreign language. Multilingual countries exist and work well. Ever heard of Switzerland?

    This globalization of the economy I think will bring the standard of living down for the advanced countries and not do much for the third world countries.
    Said "globalisation" has been the norm, not the exception, throughout history. You might as well try to stop a river flowing.

    f.

  • Mutz
    Mutz

    This is the first thing they (The Government) have got right in a long time.
    They've f*cked up the Post Office they're in the process of f*cking up the London Underground and made a right pigs ear of numerous other projects. This one is a winner I reckon.

  • Adam
    Adam

    Perhaps I should have wated for a little while after I read the day worker article before I posted so that my wording would have been more civil and I could have gotten responses like this. I think it's obvious that I'm all for the proposal in Britan.
    Quote:
    "Some people claim that the government is trying to foist British culture onto immigrants, potentially at the expense of their own cultures. "
    If they want their own cultures so bad, then stay where that culture extist. If they want the benifits of living in Britan, then they should accept the whole package.

  • Utopian Reformist
    Utopian Reformist

    Although this discussion is about English immigration, I would appreciate an accomodation so I could inject my experience from across the Atlantic.

    I arrived in America in 1974. I came speaking italian and spanish. All of my life growing up in Philadelphia, a brief period in NYC and Boston taught me that the "land of the freedom" is NOT free.

    I can still hear the taunts and ridicule of other teens and adults who mocked our family with similar phrases like "speak-a da english-a". It was humiliating.

    However, my father would ask these "noble" great-great great grandsons of english-irish-scottish-welsh heritage, "how many native american languages do you speak?". Of course the answer was none.

    So, it was permissible to FORCE english and protestantism upon indigenous people without reciprocation. How typical of the comments from across the atlantic today.

    How many nations did the British colonize and subjugate and exploit? So, if the tide is reversing and England is now being filled with Africans, Arabs, Asians and others, I think it's absolutely GREAT!

    In the states, spanish is spreading like gangrene and I LOVE it. Watching the typical anglo-saxon americans in their suburbs becoming more and more integrated, no matter how uncomfortable is a good lesson for all. The "HAVES" of this world will not "HAVE" forever.

    The world is EVERYONE's oyster, grab a bowl, jump in, and it's human soup for all!

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