Why do Americans still dislike atheists?

by behemot 91 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    You do realise the flip side of that coin works for the believer VS the atheist right?

    The believer can view the atheist as ignorant of the reality that the believer has seen and has been proven, to the believer, to be true.

    Since we were discussing Dawkins it seems apropos to quote him here. He's speaking in terms of fundamental belief, but it's still relevant on the basis that a belief closely held for which no evidence to the contrary, regardless of how convincing it may be, will be honestly considered is a fundamental belief.

    "I might retort that such hostility as I or other atheists occasionally voice towards religion is limited to words. I am not going to bomb anybody, behead them, stone them, burn them at the stake, crucify them, or fly planes into their skyscrapers, just because of a theological disagreement. But my interlocutor usually doesn't leave it at that. He may go on to say something like this: 'Doesn't your hostility mark you out as a fundamentalist atheist, just as fundamentalist in your own way as the wingnuts of the Bible Belt in theirs?' I need to dispose of this accusation of fundamentalism, for it is distressingly common.

    Fundamentalists know they are right because they have read the truth in a holy book and they know, in advance, that nothing will budge them from their belief. The truth of the holy book is an axiom, not the end product of a process of reasoning. The book is true, and if the evidence seems to contradict it, it is the evidence that must be thrown out, not the book. By contrast, what I, as a scientist, believe (for example, evolution) I believe not because of reading a holy book but because I have studied the evidence. It really is a very different matter. Books about evolution are believed not because they are holy. They are believed because they present overwhelming quantities of mutually buttressed evidence. In principle, any reader can go and check that evidence. When a science book is wrong, somebody eventually discovers the mistake and it is corrected in subsequent books. That conspicuously doesn't happen with holy books.

    Philosophers, especially amateurs with a little philosophical learning, and even more especially those infected with 'cultural relativism', may raise a tiresome red herring at this point: a scientist's belief in evidence is itself a matter of fundamentalist faith. I have dealt with this elsewhere, and will only briefly repeat myself here. All of us believe in evidence in our own lives, whatever we may profess with our amateur philosophical hats on. If I am accused of murder, and prosecuting counsel sternly asks me whether it is true that I was in Chicago on the night of the crime, I cannot get away with a philosophical evasion: 'It depends what you mean by "true".' Nor with an anthropological, relativist plea: 'It is only in your Western scientific sense of "in" that I was in Chicago. The Bongolese have a completely different concept of "in", according to which you are only truly "in" a place if you are an anointed elder entitled to take snuff from the dried scrotum of a goat.' Maybe scientists are fundamentalist when it comes to defining in some abstract way what is meant by 'truth'. But so is everybody else. I am no more fundamentalist when I say evolution is true than when I say it is true that New Zealand is in the southern hemisphere. We believe in evolution because the evidence supports it, and we would abandon it overnight if new evidence arose to disprove it. No real fundamentalist would ever say anything like that.

    It is all too easy to confuse fundamentalism with passion. I may well appear passionate when I defend evolution against a fundamentalist creationist, but this is not because of a rival fundamentalism of my own. It is because the evidence for evolution is overwhelmingly strong and I am passionately distressed that my opponent can't see it - or, more usually, refuses to look at it because it contradicts his holy book. My passion is increased when I think about how much the poor fundamentalists, and those whom they influence, are missing. The truths of evolution, along with many other scientific truths, are so engrossingly fascinating and beautiful; how truly tragic to die having missed out on all that! Of course that
    makes me passionate. How could it not? But my belief in evolution is not fundamentalism, and it is not faith, because I know what it would take to change my mind, and I would gladly do so if the necessary evidence were forthcoming."

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    "I might retort that such hostility as I or other atheists occasionally voice towards religion is limited to words. I am not going to bomb anybody, behead them, stone them, burn them at the stake, crucify them, or fly planes into their skyscrapers, just because of a theological disagreement.

    While I agree with Dawkings in what you posted, this part her eis one of the typical issues.

    First off, the vast majority of those cases, theological disagreement was an excuse and not a reason, and when it was A reason it was not THE reason.

    But lets say it was.

    Is Richard implying that no atheist has ever commited a heinous act over a "theological disagreement", because we know that have.

    Since Richard and I BOTH believe in evolution, as to many if not the majority of christians, that is not the issue.

    Nor is it his atheism.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Christians who accept evolution is an entirely different subject. Dawkins uses it as an example in the above quote. Any closely held belief for which the individual is unable or unwilling to consider evidence to the contrary is a fundamental belief, and that includes belief in Christ.

    From my perspective, a Christian who accepts evolution as fact has acquiesced intellectually to the overwhelming evidence of evolution but who at the same time perhaps has not had the intellectual honesty or courage to challenge his belief in Christ. Belief in Christ is a sacred cow. Off limits.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Christians who accept evolution is an entirely different subject. Dawkins uses it as an example in the above quote. Any closely held belief for which the individual is unable or unwilling to consider evidence to the contrary is a fundamental belief, and that includes belief in Christ.

    Ok.

    From my perspective, a Christian who accepts evolution as fact has acquiesced intellectually to the overwhelming evidence of evolution but who at the same time perhaps has not had the intellectual honesty or courage to challenge his belief in Christ. Belief in Christ is a sacred cow. Off limits.

    Perhaps, I am sure in the case of some that it may be true.

    I mean, if tomorrow we found a perfect human skeleton that was dated to BEFORE the oldest of the neandrathals, that could lead many to believe that man existed, as is, even before them, I am sure thant SOME evolutionists would still hold on to their "sacred cow" and I am sure that some wouldn't.

    But none of that explains why americans dislike atheists ( if they do), especially since that most every american knows at least one atheist that they do like.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    If they found a perfect homo sapien skeleton that predated the oldest neanderthal, I would be so FREAKING excited I would not be able to contain myself. I would hungrily read every morsel of the information, I would rewrite the narrative, I would be ecstatic that new information has been found to further explain evolution. It would be quite exciting. I would not hold onto an old understanding, not at all. That is the difference between science and religion. New information doesn't scare science it enriches it. Change is welcome and common. The entire "belief system" doesn't smash to the ground, it just grows. For those that believe in creation, any evidence to the contrary would completely tear it down. It is not exciting, but satanic.

    PS, you believe in evolution so I suspect you too would do a little dance if a stunning find like that ended up in the book.

    NC

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    PS, you believe in evolution so I suspect you too would do a little dance if a stunning find like that ended up in the book.

    Any discovery that helps us understand our orginis is exciting.

    Even if we found evidence that proved man was created and didn't evolve, it wouldn't chaneg the fact that other species we have records of DID evolves from a common ancestor.

  • Pika_Chu
    Pika_Chu

    About Dawkins, I can see why he'd upset many a theist with his attitude and wordchoice at times. He's very outspoken. In some ways, I think that's a good thing, because in religiously-dominated societies, atheists need to stand up for themselves. On the other hand, I think the WAY he says certain things, it ends up feeding that stereotype of atheists--as god-haters, arrogant, know-it-alls, smarter than god, having a grudge against him.

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo
    About Dawkins, I can see why he'd upset many a theist with his attitude and wordchoice at times. He's very outspoken.

    Dawkins is rather an evangelical atheist. He tells people that something is so and doesn't allow the validity of an alternative point of view. He's a bit like Godrulz in many ways. (No insult intended to Godrulz).

  • keyser soze
    keyser soze
    He's a bit like Godrulz in many ways. (No insult intended to Godrulz).

    I'm more concerned about the insult to Dawkins.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    behemot:

    Why athiests are disliked is perhaps because some people assume (wrongly in most cases) that if a person professes no belief in a god, they have no fear of doing wrong and are capable of anything or cannot be counted on. Some so-called "god-fearing" types might be threatened by such a person.

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