by wildeflower 18 Replies latest jw friends
Go to the following article and print it out. Have him read it and see if he is receptive to it. Don't be too surprised if he receives it coldly, but at least you will know what his motive is. Personally, I found the article to be well written and researched.
His motive may be to argue you into being a JW yourself, be prepared.
http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html
If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?
I understand that you would get very emotional having such a conversation with your parents.
What about asking him not to cite the Bible, just listen to what you have to say and react to what you're saying, as a human being, not a religious fundy.
I agree with the other poster, ask him to read CoC, and then ask him to talk to you again...
Celia was right about asking him to just react to your feeling without scriptural context. Perhap you can just say, 'Can we just talk about people for once.'
I'm sure he'd admit there's a lot of asses who are JW's, appointed men, men who are supposed to be gently sheparding the flock. Ask him what he thinks of it. Just don't get your hopes up. It's always an uphill battle.
Don't be sad if he's angry at you, or calls you names. They get like that. Just try not to be confrontational or emotional.
But, rather than spending a whole day on it, why not just take an hour to talk religion, and then take him to dinner, spend time with him, etc.
Soften his JW hardness, be his friend, and he will listen more readily. Least, that's what I do. I've gotten very involved in my JW parents life since I left home, and now almost all of them are leaving the 'troof'.
But, it WAS AN UPHILL BATTLE the whole way. Good luck. Sorry I was so pessimistic at first. You can reach people, it's just really hard.
ashi
Freeminds has some excellent things you could discuss under "What to say to relatives" or something like that. I was just reading an old 58'w. under a does your religion matter and the familiar quote was given about how what you believe should be thouroghly examined and put to the test.
Ask your dad to consider some facts you have, as you want to know the answers
You may be able to introduce things he has never considered.
Isn't it worth the chance to try? iI he dosen't listen....(and he may not)....you can feel good you tried and he made the choice.
I wish you good luck.
Path is probably right. This will, in all probability, be an exercise in futility...BUT for your own peace of mind you probably should go through with it.
My suggestion is this: Don't ask him to read a book. I wouldn't. Don't ask him to go to a website and read what someone else has to say about the witnesses. I wouldn't have. Make up a list of what you, personally, feel is wrong with the Society. Be specific and put everything down that you can think of. Eventually your list will be far too long. Stop and go over it again and choose just a few things you feel that you are really prepared to discuss.
Don't be adversarial. Let your father speak also. Approach this not so much to prove your father wrong but rather as an effort to allow him to explain to you what you cannot reconcile. Don't get angry if you can't agree on a point. After a while, try to mutually agree to move on to something else before either one gets angry. Don't be afraid to concede a point if you feel that he has made his argument. Remember that: NOT ALL ACCUSATIONS AGAINST THE SOCIETY ARE LEGITIMATE. Don't generalize and make all encompassing statements like: All elders are power mongers! No one in the organization has any real love! Stick to things that can be discussed.
You can e-mail me if you would like some examples.
Ask him this question..."The WTBTS tells us to encourage our children to be open about what's in their heart. At what age does this stop?"
He will fuddle. Then go on about how when you are little, and the questions are simple, like "Is there really a devil?" then there's no problem, but when you are older, and the questions become more complicated, you are finally told to just accept whatever you are told no matter how self contradictory.
Say "Why is that Daddy?"
If he's open to it and wants an example of your more grown-up questions, you could ask "If the Watchtower is "the truth", then why do they have to lie to make you believe?"
Then you can pull out the big guns. Start with the lie about how the "early christians" (AKA Russell) supposedly looked forward to 1914 for the beginning of Christ's parousea. That's what the WT says. Many quotes. Yet there is no truth to it. Tell him he will not find even one reference to suggest that, but instead, Russells books are filled with 1874 parousea teachings and 1914 for the end of the world.
So Daddy, why does "the Truth" have to lie?
Consider this,
When you were a JW, do you think you could go to someone's house and convince them that their religion is wrong in one session? Why do you think you can do this with your father? I would take it real slow, and as some have suggested, just talk about one or two of your "concerns" about the religion. Don't hit him with a laundry list, or an "apostate book."
By the way, did you read how Amazing did it?
I'll retract the comment I made about getting him to read an 'apostate' book. That is quite a ways down the road.
My suggestion is to start slowly. Just tell your father a few things are bothering you. Nothing 'heavy'.
If you have frequent contact with your father, build slowly on previous conversations. Only say a little at a time. Be observant, listen and press them on issues gently when they have their moments of honesty.
It is a long and frustrating road getting anyone out of the WT, and unfortunately I think some people will never leave. Know when to cut your losses and if you realize they may never leave, try to build a middle ground where you both can be civil and tolerant of each other's right to believe something different.
Live your life to the best you can and be happy. This is the greatest thing you can do for both of you.
Path
You don't have to be an asshole to tell them you simply don';t believe it and you still want to have a relationship with them. If they are humane, decent people, they will respect your descision for whatever reason..if in fact they shun you now for not being part of the org, then they will most likely not change and your father will quickly take control of the conversation and make you feel like crap. Just be honest with him, and if you still believe in Jesus & Dog, then tell him so, but make sure you are firm in the belief that its a personal matter and not something you are willing to put in the hands of a bunch of old guys from Bethel. I've been out for a long time and I can't talk to my dad about anything religious for more than ten or fifteen minutes at a time, before I get mad and say things I shouldn't. Even I know better, but you have to buy that ticket and take that ride to find out. Take care and please be good to yourself.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer
