I would tell her in a loving way how you respect her as an adult and she has the right to live her life any way she choses. That you have been emotional and it's because you do love her so much. Ask her if she could do one thing even if she does this in private. Research the history of the Organization for herself so that she will not have any doubts or regrets. Because they do encourage people to do reseach that the preach to and the bible tells us to keep seeking for the truth like a hidden treasure. If the truth is the truth it should be able to withstand any lies. I wish you all the best. I have a daughter that age who I can no longer speak to as of 3 days ago when I disassociated myself after doing so much research. But it came too late, because I had a hand getting her in it and we both got baptized and now she is married to a witness and I will forever feel lost without her, we were very very close. God Bless
Is there no hope? (daughter getting baptized)
Does she feel the end is near and that living in paradise earth really appeals to her? Has she lost someone and feels that she wants to be in parradise to see them again?
Ask her to do research on the teaching and how watchtower is similar to the latest doom prophet (harold camping) who claimed end of the world would come on May 21 of this year. They are selling false hope to people and that's one reason why they keep changing their doctrine. Their pretty paradise pictures appeal to people but it's all nonsense. Crisis of Conscience (by Ray Franz) may be a good book for her to read. Tell her that many cults punish, excommunicate their ex-members and that many cults view outsiders as evil and not to be trusted. I wouldn't recommend her getting baptized but since she's not a born in and non of her family are jws, the consequences of getting disfellowshipped aren't the same. If she stops with JWs now she'll lose her friends now, if she joins the cult and leaves or gets disfellowshipped she will lose all her friends as well.
The very first thing you should ask her is to research the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians. Tell her to show you archeaological proof for the event. Without their imaginary event in 607BC (I recommend reading Gentile Times Reconsidered by Olof Jonnson) they can't have 1914 and without 1914 they can't have 1919 which they still claim that the faithful stewart was chosen (their leaders) by Jesus. Their original leader - Charles Russell taught that Jesus returned in 1874 and that in 1914 the end was to occur similar to the false prophet mentioned earlier, in fact very similar idea, rapture of witnesses in 1914 ( they were called bible students at the time). 1874 date as Jesus' return was taught and preached for 50 years before they revised it to 1914, watchtower downplays it in their present articles.
jwfact.com is a good site to find facts she can research. The "teacher" will always say that apostates lie or twist facts, get her to research it and see if ex-members twist the truth or does the "teacher" actually not know what she's talking about. Witnesses are not very smart for most part, and the smart ones are under delusion that they have the truth but haven't researched the facts. She must do research and not accept simple answers from witnesses that the "light" is brighter now than in the past. What happens when she doesn't agree with a teaching, can she talkl openly with others about her view that she doesn't agree with or will she have to keep it to herself or face disciple due to "causing divisions"!!!!!
Thanks for the welcomes and kind words and help. I feel the love in here more than i do in the hall! (which i wont be going back to.)
Is she planning this for the upcoming convention? - talespin
Not sure on this... she hasn't been out door knocking yet (don't know the technical term for it) and the convention here is in 3 months. I think she plans to take the next step before baptism, soon hence the letter to the church. I wouldn't have a clue what the time requirements are when it comes to each 'level' to 'qualify' for baptism. Is there enough time to get baptized this year?
It sounds like your daughter is attracted to the wt for emotional reasons - Retrovirus
I think so. As i said, she's a good girl, and believes JW share her morals. She has been in the nightclubbing scene and was studying JW on and off for years, but only recently returned to it whole heartedly, because what she saw of the scene and of the youth made her say "I need to go back to God!" Unfortunately going to God to her means going to the Watchtower.
I think she also harbors a desire to marry a good JW boy, because she's attracted to their morals and love for God, but i've told her that it would require her to be a good JW wife and i can't see that happening because she's her own person, very inquisitive, a reader, a writer, needs her alone time and i don't think all the meetings, door knocking, and other commitments would make for a happy marriage because she'd be miserable. She has some fanciful idea of marriage - even saying "JW men are better than the men in the world." SIGH. I can se the brainwashing that no one in the world could possibly love God and be good people is working. She's not a very sociable person so i think the idea of being with the same people, in this tight knit cult, appeals to her, too.
WhatwasIthinking, thanks for sharing your story, very interesting. Your username says it all! That's precisely the question i want to help my daughter avoid. I do find it strange that she's experiencing the opposite. I would have thought her teacher would be inviting her out as much as possible so she can make friends and would want to get baptized even moreso. Your story confirms what i fear in that i'd hate to think they just don't like her out of jealousy or some other reason and getting baptized will not result in the network of friends she thinks she hasn't yet EARNED the right to hang out with because "you're not one of us." which is their story for now. I know there's people in the hall she talks to and likes and can't get to know better because she isn't acceptable company to them, yet. I wish she'd understand that if thats how they treat her now, it's a good indication of how conditional their friendships are, and what kind of people they are. I don't want that for her. She sees the love they have amongst each other but she doesn't feel it and believes she wont until she's baptized. And if she NEVER feels it!? from what i've read, more loveis shown to a study than a convert!
Camelot, sorry to hear that, it's exactly what i don't want to happen in my case. She has elders and such telling her not to worry about her family because the congregation IS a family, so with teachings like that, what hope have we got? And how they can say this cult doesn't split families apart is beyond me! God bless.
diamondiiz, she is comforted by the paradise teaching. She's already started using the "in the new system" line whenever someone has a THIS SYSTEM problem. And she IS currently asking questions that would make a JW squirm which is why i asked if that would be discussed amongst them and why different people/the squealers of the congregation are coming up to her at the hall OR if THAT'S why she isn't being invited out. She said one night's talk was given by someone who met her and said "I've heard a lot about you from [study teacher's name]" and it was about studies who "know it's the truth" but aren't progressing fast enough! HA! Is this how they get messages across?
That is really sad. There are so many anti WT, websites in the world that show how WT is misleading people. Perhaps you should try one point at a time trying to reason her. I am afraid that brainwashing has done the job, but is never to late.
I'm suggesting to ask help from people that they are aim is to give assistance for people like you.
The fact she changes her mind to fit in with whoever is talking to her at the time might suggest she is a people pleaser and looks for acceptance and conflict avoidance. These will override all other considerations if so.
She will need to learn how to think for herself and stick up for herself and not allow others to manipulate her into agreeing with them. That takes time. This may not be her problem it's just a suggestion.
Heart to heart talks and direct questions about how she feels when people disagree with her opinions or her questions might help reveal if this is her method and for her to see this is not beneficial way of dealing with life in the long term.
Smart people tend to be seekers of truth and they seek the meanings of life everywhere, even in religion, in the Bible, in the Society. They are curious. But they also are the first to awaken when they smell shit. An educated non-born-in will probably not stay long in the BORG. I think your daughter is curious, she likes some of the persons there, has some issues with your authority, has a feeling of self-righteousness and she will get baptized only to leave the organisation for good in about 3 years from now, after which she will join our ranks and become an atheist.
Hi Camicia and welcome.
Like some other posters have pointed out . . . possibly your daughter has emotional reasons for wanting to press on toward becoming JW. You mentioned depression/ anxiety as something she struggles with. If this is the case . . . reasoning over doctrines etc will have limited value IMO. The attraction will simply be the comfort she feels . . . from the absolutes regarding the future . . . and the willingness of others to show interest in her without her having to initiate relationships.
With even low-level mental illness problems surfacing at her age . . . joining this cult will be a very dangerous step . . . it will seriously damage her without doubt. I feel you would be helpful to her if you did your best to be an alternative source of comfort . . . to be kind and considerate and caring to the greatest degree . . . spending time with her doing the non-religious things which she has shown interest in before. Basically, tightening your mother/daughter bond. Respect her right to make her own decisions . . . but do suggest she do research and think carefully about such a major decision.
If she has not yet been out in service . . . then you have a few months at the very least. Door to door work can be a challenge for someone like you've described your daughter to be.
It is a good idea to post here often when you're tackling a problem such as this . . . there are lot's of experienced wise heads here and many will follow your progress. So do keep us posted on any developments.
All the very best.
I made it plain to my teenage son who i know will get baptized (so as to have sex)
that it is his mistake to make and that i will be here for him when he realizes it is all lies, i will be here to help pick up the pieces.
Beyond that, well, you can lead a horse to water but you make it drink. The fastest way to get a person to do something is to forbid it. Your daughter is 23, she may have issues but she is an adult and as such will have to take responsability for her choices. At least she cant be made to shun you, as i will likely be.
All the best
love her and be there when she falls
WT is so good in brain washing. Since she is going to their meetings the process of brainwashing works perfectly, especially the: us vs them mentality. Evil vs bad, God vs devil. You cannot oppose to her, since this it will cause the defense mechanism implant to her by the WT to act against you. I suggest to show her the flip flop doctrines of the WT and the fact that they have a short history as a group(sect)but with many failed prophesies.
Try to show her for instance how did WT viewed organ transplans in 1964(it was OK) the in 1967(became cannibalist act!)and in 1980 again it was ok!. So who is to blammed for all those thousands who died between 1967-1980? God's spirit or a man made organization?
Then you can point out that their founder Russell what he believed as "truth" for at least 60 years, now it is consider "apostate teachings". Even their founder it wouldn't have a place amongst modern day JW's.
I was raised in that evil cult. I left when I was 35 and this caused me to lost my entire family. Your daughter is in danger. What I'm afraid is that after she becomes a JW, the "system" will push her to get married a "faithful brother" and it will turn things even worsed. I know how they are acting since I was raised there. Specially when there is a new single person that joins their club, the next thing they do is to find a "faithful mate" so they will lock him/her at their organization.
If you need more help just ask us, you can send me a PM also if you like. No matter what you must act fast, since your daughter is in danger.