Watchtower Lawyer’s Response

by Marvin Shilmer 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • steve2

    Worldwide, religious or not, one of the chief purposes of having "good" lawyers is for impression management. Nice to know the JWs are on a par with worldly organizations in that regard.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    The sad part is you have to be a Witness to understand how coercive and grasping the WTBTS is. The state provides preprinted advance directive forms which could be used to negate a blood transfusion. Parents cannot murder their children by withholding blood if the state knows about it. I am certain families have underground to avoid a court order.

    Do these cards have actual legal consequence? If it were so important to not have blood, I'd see a private lawyer to make certain. We know just how much expertise a study conductor has. Everything is mass market with them. An advance direction must meet the state's criteria to be valid. It is hard in the US to keep things straight with at least fifty jurisdictions.

    What happened to individuals deciding how to act in accordance with the scriptures. I am adamantly pro-Choice. My point is that Roman Catholics and certain other Christians should never have an abortion since it is against their religious morals. The Church should instruct, counsel and cajole enough without dragging in the government to force nonCatholics to give up their right to choose. The government is selected as the enforcement mechanism.

    I wonder about lawyers who represent churches that covered up peophilic behavior and any that restrict privacy and autonomy. Also, it is hard to convey to nonlawyers how integral lawyers are to the government. Every Western legal community I know treasures privacy rights and individual rights. The Witnesses are very factory people. Leni W. did that Nazi film, however. Triumph of the Will. I saw it in a NY theatre. It is brilliant, just brilliant. I had to run out after fifteen minutes b/c my chest was constricting from how good it was.

    Not even paragraphs. She filmed the Olympic games in Berlin as a tribute to Hitler. Jesse Owens, a black American, won the Gold Medal in a running competition. The British and American athletes refuse to acknowledge Hitler's presence. So evil can be pure genius. I am not saying the lawyers are evil but they must have some screws lose. Too bad the dubs don't have their own representation.

    I'm shocked these cards are valid and more shocked that a judge made aware of the overreaching of Brooklyn finds them valid. The problem is that aside from nonWitness spouses, the JWs want to commit suicide.

  • MrMonroe

    My experience was always that all baptised members of the congregation were given a card by their book study conductor, which is contrary to Ridley's statement. There was strong encouragement for everyone to fill them out and sign them out, but no checking that all had done so. If a person decided not to, (or neglected to do so) there was no coercion. That may not be the situation in all congregations, however.

  • bsmart

    Question: Now that the bookstudy is part of the Thursday night routine does anyone (Ynot???) have recent experience with the medical directive thing? I left so long ago that they were just starting with the card thing (pre 1970).

  • baltar447

    Growing up I never felt that a blood card was "optional". Now the DPA forms later that they started to push I would say a good percentage did NOT fill these out.


    Thank you for that information, Marvin. Indeed he knew full well what the WTBTS admonition was and how to get the witnesses to adhere. They didn't just give them out to anyone who asked. You were given one if you were baptised. You filled them out and signaures were witnessed at the book studies, if possible.

    Anything else he told was total BS. When I look back, it confirms that no matter how hard leaving was, I did the best thing.

    Keep up your fantastic work, Marvin!

  • sizemik

    As a longtime Witness, elder and lawyer for Watchtower, Ridley knew or should have known that Watchtower had been instructing elders to make sure
    every baptized Witness in the congregation was given a blood card and signed it. That he said otherwise in his article is telling.

    one of the chief purposes of having "good" lawyers is for impression management.

    If they were genuinely championing truth . . . they would tell the truth . . . and proudly . . . as a "good witness" to other truth loving people. The fact that they hide the truth . . . is also very telling.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Obviously, I don't know the procedure. Do individuals pocket the cards and carry them on their body? It would be easy to lie to the brother and throw it out at home. Blood never struck me as a core Witness belief such as Jesus' demotion, fundamentalism, evangelicalism. The scripture is so distorted. I know from personal experience that it is easy to say if I am too ill, I will die vs. actually facing that moment. People looking at severely disabled people swear they would rather die. The disabled report good lifestyles. Most of the time.

    How does the Society know what is the appropriate law in each state? I suppose it isn't hard to come up with a master list and keep it updated. A law student could do that easily. What if the card does not conform to a state's requirements (maybe the Witness is out of state) and a nonWitness spouse wants blood.

    It reminds me I need to see a lawyer for advance directives.


    The medical directives were to be displayed in your wallet in such a way that if you got into an accident, that would be the first thing the EMT's, police, etc. would see. I shopped for a wallet that had a clear front cover, so it was dispayed on the outside of it. I was able to witness over it too, when someone inquired about the document

    I also went to a bloodless seminar at a hospital, given by two sisters who showed a film on the new bloodless procedures. You could also pick up a keychain and decal for your vehicle indicating "no blood". I got the decal, and although I've drifted away from the "Truth" the last couple of years, only since I've been on this board, reading about all the hypocrisy and lies did I peel that off and throw it away.

    Also, there was a living will document that had your wishes about non-blood issues as well as end-of-life wishes. Didn't the brothers keep a copy or the original? I know I had either the original or a copy at my house, gave an elder a copy and a friend. I thought that was a suggestion as well. Does anyone else remember this other document or details? Sorry if it has been mentioned above and I missed it. Thanku

  • TD

    Shameless liars....

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