Perhaps some helpful advice. My rant on the JW mindset.

by garyneal 25 Replies latest jw friends

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  garyneal

  Snoozy:

  I was just the opposite..I always felt there was just something not quite right about the religion even tho I gave it a fighting chance for 15 years. I just saw how strong every one else felt about it and thought I would eventually be that way too. But really , who could believe the things they teach as truth? Common sense tells you it just can't be right..

  You sound like my wife in some ways. At times she would confide in me that she cannot understand why some people had such a passion for God while she did not. I think she is working on becoming that way too. I wish her all the best, I know deep down she means well, just as you do, just as we all do.

  retrovirus:

  There's a lot in that. Often in the "bible studies" I was tempted to please my jw ladies by giving the "right" answers, and felt guilty when I objected yet again.

  Yeah, I can relate. During the times when I was involved in the "Bible studies" with the witnesses, I use to try to give "good answers" to the questions just so I can look good to them. I find that we do that a lot, sure everyone has an opinion but outwardly we all seem to be victims of "group think."

  Farkel:

  I believe you can put your thoughts into three paragraphs, yet have them still be as powerful as they are now. Are you willing to accept that challenge, Gary? If so, you can be a formidable challenge to WT idiocy.

  That's high praise coming from you Farkel. I'm honored, actually. I'm willing to accept the challenge to be less verbose while still driving the point home. I know sometimes I get carried away when I am 'rambling' and I hope I don't get as bad as Larsinger and DjEggNog.

  Little Imp: Did you use IE 9 when you made that post. The True One indicated that it works here if you turn on compatibility mode. I've tested it and he is indeed correct.

  treber: Truer words were never spoken. Very succint and to the point.

  Nancy Drew: Thanks for your advice and insight in your own life's journey. I do believe that one day this will all come crashing down around her when she indeed finds her 'friends' at the hall to be conditional ones. I'm going to pull back as let things go their course, witnesses are what they are. Like scorpions, they do what they do because that is what they are.

  OTWO:

  That's what makes JW's a dangerous mind-control cult. I won't defend Christianity, but most of it is not so deeply entrenched in the Us vs. "The World" mentality. Most of Christianity doesn't assume that people just want to sin if they reject the message (although I have heard it, even on JWN).

  Sadly, so have I which is why I am questioning even Christianity today. I think most mainstream Christians are cool with people of other beliefs. I know from personal experience the dissonance that goes on in their minds in regards to these other people of other faiths. At least I can say that most of the ones I've encountered don't get too bent out of shape over every little bit of doctrine. Many of them actually accept witnesses as another denomination of Christianity. However, there are those who are just as bad as the witnesses in the Us vs Them mentality. Like my old cult.

  I have probably suggested those to you before. Clearly, they are not magic cures. I read them and my wife is still very JW. But they help.

  Yes they do and yes you did recommend them to me before. I've got both books and I've read most of CCMC and RTB.
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  tec

  Not to mention that it is also offensive and somewhat hurtful to know that my wife thinks I am vain and shallow to think that all I want is to satisfy my vain interests above doing what is right

  It is hard when the person you have shared so many years of your life does not see you for who you are. Especially when they see you as someone they have pretty much 'made up' on their own.

  I hear you, and I'm sorry.

  But who you are is not defined by what someone else thinks of you. You do have hope also, that your wife will see you, once freed from the way she HAS to think in order to understand your rejection of her beliefs.

  Peace,

  Tammy
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  garyneal

  RagingBull:

  I mean...yeah there's lots of "bitter" people out there, but really...EVERYONE can't be WRONG or CRAZY.

  That's the clincher for me. It is true that there are bitter people who come out of this religion and my wife is correct that some people just act on their bitterness and chastize this religion. However, when a lot of people come out with similar stories? You cannot have that many similar stories without their being some degree of truth in them.

  nugget: Thanks. Yeah, I know her comments are primarily witness speak. That's why I try not to let them bother me too much. I guess what bothers me more is the fact that she actually believes that witness speak concerning people like me. Makes me wonder exactly what kind of an opinion she really has of me. However, her authentic personality seems to treat me as good as I can expect so there is hope.

  jgnat:

  I like your thoughts on how people have a tendency to go along with the crowd. As I think about it, it makes sense.

  You see, a whole bunch of motives are imparted there for why spouses would not join. None of them fit me. I would go through each "motive" and explain why it doesn't fit. I won't go because it is not the truth. This is what he dreads to hear, so he quickly drops the subject.

  I need to read that book to see what those motives are to see if they fit me in any way.

  No Room for George:

  Your comments are spot on too. I too have noticed how judgemental they are and how the seem to have no natural affection due to their shunning practices. There is a quote I often think of from Blaise Pascal when I think of the atrocities committed by religious people that says, "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."

  talesin:

  Even if you live an 'exemplary life' according to JWS official standards, with the exception of entering the KH, she will not be able to accept that you 'left the truth' because you simply do not believe in it.

  After all, JWS can do all kinds of things (eg. be a drunkard, smoker, child molester, dishonest in business) and be a member of the congregation in good standing, as long as they cover it up/make sure they are with the 'in' crowd/lie their faces off. It's all about appearances and cliques; it's political.

  I remember a few years ago thinking about how no matter how friendly I was with them, how much I said I believed in God and the Bible, or even how much I agreed with them on certain doctrinal matters that I would never ever (in their eyes) be good enough to be called a "brother."

  One thing that happened at the church I attend was when our church had been dismissed and another church was starting up, the minister of that other church (a woman) noticed my daughter and I looking in the doorway. She came out and asked if we wanted to join her and when I told her that we were curious but we attended another church her response was, "We're all brothers and sisters in Christ." She went on to speak very highly of the church I attended and gave my daughter and I a warm welcome. My opinion of women pastors (tainted by WT-ese and similar Christian churches) changed that day and I recall telling my wife about the incident and how good it felt to know that we could attend different churches and have differences of opinion in certain doctrines and still be considered united.

  Of course, you know how she reacted. In a typical JW way.
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  garyneal

  Thanks Tammy
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  AiAi

  Farkel,

  My previous response to you was the first time I have ever corrected someone's grammar on-line so I hardly think I qualify as a grammar cop. And if I do not have any reason to disagree with your 'argument' does that automatically mean I am just a “pedant and grammar cop”?

  Regardless (I should say 'irregardless' for your amusement), I do disagree with your 'argument' (which seems more like a statement).

  If I am correctly interpreting your post you are asserting that Raging Bull is one of the “unfortunate children who is a victim of our fucked up educational system that does not teach our children even the basics of grammar or thought.”

  But it is not his fault he has no concept of the basics of grammar or thought: “It is the fault of our system which has lost its way in teaching our children to think and speak.” “"Raging Bull" is just a victim” “It is not Raging Bull's fault.”

  You also do not mean to offend him for saying he doesn't have the skills of grammar or thought at even a basic level: “Raging Bull: I mean you no harm.”

  And you provide a solution to his inadequate education: “Educate yourself independently. Trust me. It will be the best thing you ever did.”

  Now, I agree independent self-education is definitely good. But it seems to me a synopsized version of what you are saying is this: 'Raging Bull, you have bad grammar. I'll explain this off topic opinion to you through an even further off topic rant about our educational system. They made you this dumb. But if you educate yourself, like I did, then you can fix the problem of poor grammar and have even worse grammar!'

  Another reason I 'attacked' your 'argument' is that it incredibly violates posting guidelines three and ten. On top of blatantly breaking those rules you broke rule one in your response to me by asking if “just being a pedant and grammar cop” was good enough for me. I don't feel insulted, however, I do think calling someone that IS insulting.

  Also, a further reason for why I 'attacked your argument' is all of your statements about the educational system have no proof. If you can prove the following statements I'll agree with you:

  “our fucked up educational system that does not teach our children even the basics of grammar or thought.”

  “It is the fault of our system which has lost its way in teaching our children to think and speak.”

  “our system won't and will not educate you.”

  “Our educational system just wants to keep in power and their unspoken message is "FUCK the children.”

  “ We just want to keep our jobs, and if keeping our jobs means FUCK the children, then FUCK the children, for emphasis: then FUCK the children.”

  “I have to pay my mortgage and to do that, if if means FUCK our children, then FUCK our children. After all, I have a mortgage to pay and I work for the School Board."

  “the teacher's unions (who don't represent the teachers, but only represent the union bosses who run the unions and make 5 times as much money as the teachers they claim to represent, but couldn't teach shit if they had to)”

  Who said those statements you quoted by the way? Or was using quotes just another grammar mistake due to your self-education?
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  garyneal

  jgnat:

  He's asked me recently why I won't start coming to meetings, and I've told him that if he really wants the answer, I'll sit down and have a serious conversation, using the Secret To Family Happiness book (chapter 11). He quickly dropped the subject. You see, a whole bunch of motives are imparted there for why spouses would not join. None of them fit me. I would go through each "motive" and explain why it doesn't fit. I won't go because it is not the truth. This is what he dreads to hear, so he quickly drops the subject.

  I just read that chapter, well at least the parts pertaining to non-believing spouses. I have to admit, in some ways the things they book is saying about people like me, could be said about her (my wife) depending on whether or not a person believes that the witnesses are the Bible based religion or more mainstream Christianity.

  What "motives" do you see in that chapter in regards to why spouses do not join?