Perhaps some helpful advice. My rant on the JW mindset.

by garyneal 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • RagingBull
    RagingBull

    I've been on these sites (here, Jwfacts, youtube, etc...) for about 1yr now...and I can seriously say that I'm almost at the point where I could care less about what my wife or family thinks if I were to up in quit ASAP! My wife is a R&F member and cannot, will not see the TRUTH for what it really is. I mean...yeah there's lots of "bitter" people out there, but really...EVERYONE can't be WRONG or CRAZY. We discussed the whole 1975 thing (my mom started studying in the mid 80's...so I was a kid and i had never even heard of the 1975 mess until later of course. So me and my wife discussed it, she said her mom said she remembers back then...but it was never TAUGHT that the end would come in 1975. I have the Fred Franz talk ready to go. I can't wait to see her mouth drop when she hears the "Fall of 1975" proclamation.

    Mind control really works!...just look at a JW and you'll see it. Every meeting I attend...I laugh to myself at the comments given. Every WT I read, I disect and pick it apart.

  • nugget
    nugget

    Gary your wife's statement that you reject witnesses to do as you please is pure witness speak. It is what they are taught in their publications that no one can possibly reject the organisation because of a flaw in their teachings or because there is a problem with the religion or it's followers. For JWs religion is all about denial and sacrifice for them it includes judgement and criticism. They take pride in the fact that they deny themselves more than other religions because they have no achievements or good works they can point to.

    The idea that religion could be uplifting and affirming and that relgion can help us to be better than we might be is missed on them. It is truly sad and I am sorry your wife is still influenced by it.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I've done some fascinating reading on how the mind works, and it is far more complex than a simple switchboard, yes/no. For economy's sake, our neurons accept and reinforce majority answers. This might explain our tendency in groups to go along with the crowd. After all, statistically speaking, what are the chances that one lone antelope facing the opposite direction, is right? Much less risk, and better chance of survival, to run with the crowd. Evolutionally speaking.

    This has been repeated in the lab. Invariably, if one out of a dozen observes a different answer than the group, he will modify his answer. All of a sudden, 1+1=3. However, if two or more challenge the group, he might begin to trust his eyes over group consensus.

    So we have an assembly where nearly everyone listens politely, and reconfirm their pleasure in the speaker and topics afterwards. Blondie used to break through the delusion by asking specific questions, "Really? Which topic did you enjoy most?" Few would remember any specifics.

    It might help with your wife to distinguish those statements she is parroting, and those that come from her genuine self. When hubby uses one of those canned phrases, I snort and ask him if that is really me? After all, he knows me. I'll give him specific examples if I have to.

    He's asked me recently why I won't start coming to meetings, and I've told him that if he really wants the answer, I'll sit down and have a serious conversation, using the Secret To Family Happiness book (chapter 11). He quickly dropped the subject. You see, a whole bunch of motives are imparted there for why spouses would not join. None of them fit me. I would go through each "motive" and explain why it doesn't fit. I won't go because it is not the truth. This is what he dreads to hear, so he quickly drops the subject.

  • No Room For George
    No Room For George

    Excellant thread, and observations Gary.

    In Matthew 7:1-5, Jesus admonishes his followers not to judge others, yet that's exactly what JWs do when they don't allow individuals or groups to come to another reasonable conclusion that differs from the WT's doctrines. It's always their way or the highway, and I hate to say it, but they're actually in harmony with Paul's thoughts at 2 Tim 3:3 where he says that in the last days people will "have no natural affection, and not open to any agreement." To break up a family, to shun a family member because they no longer agree with the WT falls in line with Paul's words on a lack of natural love and affection, and being so unreasonable that no agreement can ever be made. When Carl Jonsson and Ray Franz came to diffferent conclusions, rather than the WT say, "we'll just have to agree to disagree", they had to slander and destroy their characters, and they've been doing that same devious crap to families and individuals for years now. If the latest WT articles that have generated several threads on here recently are any indication, they're going to maintain that hardline stance. To hell with your loved ones.

    I'll never understand it as I've never been the type of guy that hates someone else because they don't agree with me. I'm not going to lose sleep because you disagree with me over something doctrinal. We can agree to disagree, but the WT just can't have that for some reason. It really speaks volumes to their control freak nature, and lack of self esteem. When I look at the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, I see several men who probably got beat up as kids, and have had a chip on theiir shoulder ever since. Kind of like people who become police officers for all the wrong reasons. When I saw and heard David Mercante for the first time, I couldn't help but think he was a closet homosexual with tremendous self esteem issues. Believe me, that guy and people like him is why the WT will NEVER change. They're about themselves, and their way of living, and will not tolerate anything that could potentially jeopardize it. To hell with your families, friends, or your way of making a living. If it affects the WT heavyweight's health insurance, their ability to be treated like gods at the branches and assemblies, their ability to travel around the country and the world,.....if it affects anything that can threaten any of that, it must be eradicated with prejudice. They could care less about unity, they're only concerned with outward uniformity at the expense of individual's lives, and families.

    Another thing that bugs me is, Mark 9:40, Jesus tells his disciples that, "he who is not against us, is for us." The WT loves talking about how everyone hates JWs because they're no part of the world, and I hated seeing the incidents in Bulgaria, Georgia, and Russia because it reinforces that persecution complex. The average person doesn't care about JWs. JWs aren't even on the radar, until we show up uninvited on a Saturday morning and disturb someones peaceful morning. Yet let the WT tell it, its because the world hates us, which couldn't be farther from the truth. The truth being the world doesn't give a hoot about us. That being said, why the WT wastes so much paper badmouthing every other religion and differing opinion is beyond me. The average Christian or other faith is not against JWs, so in harmony with Mark 9:40, the WT needs to stop worrying about everybody else.

    Have you ever notice that the literature doesn't really spend as much time on encouragement as they spend reiterating the necessity of the peculiar repetitious formalities that we as JWs perform? Every magazine, every book, is about badmouthing everybody else, field service and meetings. It's rarely encouraging, but quite often scornful towards nonJWs, and demanding of active JWs. This is a religion that demands and encites hatred, not a religion that encourages. If you're looking for encouragement, well you go find the nice little Unitarian church down the street. If you're looking for rigidity, repetition, and a complex, become a Jehovah's Witnesses.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    raging bull,

    : where I could care less about

    You mean could NOT care less. If you COULD care less, then you should care less, which means you WANT to care less if you could. If you mean you couldn't care less, then you don't give a shit. I think that is what you meant to say.

    You are one of the unfortunate children who is a victim of our fucked up educational system that does not teach our children even the basics of grammar or thought.

    It's not your fault. It is the fault of our system which has lost its way in teaching our children to think and speak. You have only one option now: educate yourself: because as God is my witness our system won't and will not educate you.

    Our educational system just wants to keep in power and their unspoken message is "FUCK the children. We just want to keep our jobs, and if keeping our jobs means FUCK the children, then FUCK the children, for emphasis: then FUCK the children. I have to pay my mortgage and to do that, if if means FUCK our children, then FUCK our children. After all, I have a mortgage to pay and I work for the School Board."

    That is why the teachers unions and the other power players need to be brought down to their knees, and that is why the parents and communities need to take their schools away from the teacher's unions (who don't represent the teachers, but only represent the union bosses who run the unions and make 5 times as much money as the teachers they claim to represent, but couldn't teach shit if they had to)

    This is a serious subject, and people should take it seriously. "Raging Bull" is just a victim of our failed system. I went to school a million years ago, and I would have failed if I used Raging Bull's grammar in any paper I wrote past 7th grade. It is the failed system's fault. It is not Raging Bull's fault.

    Raging Bull: I mean you no harm. Educate yourself independently. Trust me. It will be the best thing you ever did. Don't wait for the "System" to help you. They have failed you and they have failed millions of others like you. Get cracking and get educated!

    You will thank me for this.

    Farkel

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Hi RagingBull...welcome to the forum

  • AiAi
    AiAi

    Farkel,

    Wow, really? You go incredibly off topic into a debatable political opinion just based on someones poor grammar? I do not like to correct other's grammar because I know I make enough mistakes myself and will invariably do so in my response to you, but in Raging Bull's defense you are no better.

    In fact, I think you made more mistakes.

    “You have only one option now: educate yourself: because as God is my witness our system won't and will not educate you.” Why the colon? And doesn't 'won't' mean the same thing as 'will not'?

    “We just want to keep our jobs, and if keeping our jobs means FUCK the children, then FUCK the children, for emphasis: then FUCK the children.” The comma should be a period and 'for' should be capitalized, shouldn't it?

    “I have to pay my mortgage and to do that, if if means FUCK our children, then FUCK our children.” The second 'if' should be 'it' I am assuming?

    “That is why the teachers unions and the other power players need to be brought down to their knees, and that is why the parents and communities need to take their schools away from the teacher's unions (who don't represent the teachers, but only represent the union bosses who run the unions and make 5 times as much money as the teachers they claim to represent, but couldn't teach shit if they had to)” First, you have no period in this run-on sentence; second, 'teachers' should have an apostrophe.

    “This is a serious subject, and people should take it seriously.” “I went to school a million years ago, and I would have failed if I used Raging Bull's grammar in any paper I wrote past 7th grade.” Either no commas or semi-colons would be a lot better, although I am sure its fine for the 7 th grade.

    I am sure I missed a lot of your errors and may be wrong about some I found, but I cant help but think you are joking about this “serious subject”.

  • talesin
    talesin

    That does not bother me as much as the fact that my wife thinks that I turned my back on her religion simply because I want to do whatever I want without remorse.

    OY! They have ears, but cannot hear. Even if you live an 'exemplary life' according to JWS official standards, with the exception of entering the KH, she will not be able to accept that you 'left the truth' because you simply do not believe in it.

    After all, JWS can do all kinds of things (eg. be a drunkard, smoker, child molester, dishonest in business) and be a member of the congregation in good standing, as long as they cover it up/make sure they are with the 'in' crowd/lie their faces off. It's all about appearances and cliques; it's political.

    You know it, she knows it, we all know it. It's the way they roll.

    Having said that, I feel your pain and frustration.

    t

  • talesin
    talesin

    The term I was searching for (menopause moment) is "cognitive dissonance" .... simply put,

    A [JW] person has a rigid belief system, yet sees evidence all around them that contradicts/disproves everything within the construct of said belief system (and when you are in 'the Lie', it governs every aspect of your life). However, the belief is so strong and the fear of acknowledging reality is so great (eg. it may will lead to shunning/banishment from family and loved ones, from G*d and salvation, etc.) that denial overcomes logic.

    There's lots of really good threads on this topic.

    hope that was helpful

    t

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    AiAi,

    Do you have any reason to attack my actual argument, or is just being a pedant and grammar cop good enough for you?

    Farkel

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