Almost all of the early church fathers believed in reincarnation. Ever read Clement's Homilies and Recognitions? How does that fit in with the doctrines of the Catholic Church?
1st Cen. Christianity - One Organization
by StandFirm 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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PSacramento
Based on what information we DO HAVE ( Gospels, Apostolic Fathers and outside sources) we "know" this:
After Christ died his followers set out on a mission of preaching the Gospel of his life, message and ressurection, preaching him ot be the messiah, the Son of God, and the only hope for salvation.
They were pacifits and yet were presecuted by the Jews ( because they were viewed as a secy of Judaisim and where preaching outside the Torah in the Synagouges and in public places) and by the Roman authorities, many were killed.
Peter was killed in Rome as was Paul.
The oldest writings show that there were many expressions of Christianity, though only one Gospel that was recognised by the MAJORITY and many churchs with autonomy ( no organized central body).
There was a collection of writings that gradually became authoritive ( canon) not because they were MADE authoritive but becacuse by the time a canon was "needed", they were the most common in use and most recognised by the majority.
Already by the early 2nd (100-135 or perhaps sooner) century there were copies of the Gospel of John in circulation.
There is a recorded and "unbroken" line from the apostles to the RCC and the Eastern Orthodox Church ( since both came from the "catholic church").
The only mention of any time a central meeting was ever held with the main apostles and the leaders of the church in the 1st century was held in Jerusalem because of the circumcission issue and it is notable that Peter and James followed Paul's lead/advice.
The fact that this concil is mentioned as soemthing "beyond the norm" shows that it was NOT typical and that ther eis no other record of anythin happening like this again.
The earlist writings tell us that the Bishops of the various churchs in the various cities were the "overseers" ( which is what bishops means) of those respective churches.
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TTWSYF
Almost all of the early church fathers believed in reincarnation. Ever read Clement's Homilies and Recognitions? How does that fit in with the doctrines of the Catholic Church?
Got any specific examples? A quote with a page number and book title perhaps please?
dc
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TTWSYF
Also worth mentioning that I hear often from JW apologists and Catholic haters that the church fathers were Greeks and pagans worshipers and other such nonsense. Once you are repend and are converted, what difference does your former faith make?
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PSacramento
Well, in theory, the ressurection can be viewed/interpreted as "reincarnation".
I mean I wouldn't view it that way, but in THEORY it can be viewed as such.
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botchtowersociety
JGnat.
Individual bishops in the apostolic churches have held differing opinions on various matters. This was true in the early centuries, and continues to be true today. If all bishops held the same opinions, there would never have been need for the ecumenical councils and synods (which were convened when these differences threatened unity).
This does not change the fact that, institutionally, these churches have apostolic lineage. This is historical. There is an unbroken lineage of bishops going back to apostolic times in these churches. The lineages are attested to in many ancient writings.
Respectfully, TTWSYF, quoting the bible as a definitive source only works if the reader believes it was written by God and protected by God through the ages from corruption.
The Bible can be treated as a historical reference to the early church, whether or not one believes it is written or protected by God. We can, and do, use many other ancient histories.
The fact that this concil is mentioned as soemthing "beyond the norm" shows that it was NOT typical and that ther eis no other record of anythin happening like this again.
PSac.
There are many records of councils, but these are from a period of history after Acts.
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Crisis of Conscience
Marked
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Band on the Run
I'm reading a book, The Meaning of Jesus by Biblical scholars N.T. Wright and Marucs Borg. They say that resurrection means a transformed phpysical body. Disembodied spriits was a Greek influence, not adopted by Jewish or Christian mainstream. They emphasized the physicality of the ressurrection proved that the new order had arrived.
Centuries later, as Christians still bide for the Second Coming, we have adopted heavenly spirits to deal with the contradiction that Jesus resurrection altered God/man relations yet we are still in earth pangs.
Some people claim authority for what I have never, ever read in a mainstream book or periodical. There is a consensus that the church was diverse. Protestants view it as more diverse than Catholics. Whatever, no one agrees that the WTBTS suddenly became God's only agent in the 1800s.
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jgnat
The lineages are attested to in many ancient writings. (botchtowersociety)
How ancient? Before or after about, say, 400 AD?
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jgnat
To confirm my geekiness, I also put together a diagram of some of the churches formed out of the Great Awakenings. These churches all seek to conform more closely to bible commands. The churches specifically out of the holiness and pentecostal movements, are emulating the first century church as described in the book of Acts. (I don't think they all presume to inherit from an unbroken line of succession). It is impossible to list them all. There are over 11,000 denominations and churches that have split over their bible beliefs on correct biblical living. I have not broken out the Millerites on this diagram, as I have it above.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Awakenings.jpeg
