Trinity booklet PDF (page 2)

86theWT

Black Sheep, you're certainly welcome, and thanks for the advice. From my experience talking to this person, what you said rings true.

"If you ask an awkward question they will try to change the subject or divert you away from discussing the scripture you quoted. There are numerous ways of doing this. Always ask yourself if they really addressed the question you asked." ---So true! Getting her to really hear what I'm asking or suggesting is like a wrestling match.

She has been submersed in this "belief" system for so long it seems to be a hopeless task getting her to think around the WT suppositions. No matter what the subject, she will try to steer things to "1914" or "Only we preach the Kingdom message" or "Only we don't kill each other", etc. If I bring up biblical issues, it is only to attack the misconception that they "follow the Bible". I'm not interested in preaching her into another religion/cult

I'm just hoping to leave her with some brilliant comment that could work on her subconscience like a burr under the saddle, a fantasy many of us here probably have . Any kind of obvious attack on her "beliefs" puts her in defensive mode.

kurtbethel

If you ask an awkward question they will try to change they subject or divert you away from discussing the scripture you quoted. There are numerous ways of doing this. Always ask yourself if they really addressed the question you asked.

I was convinced they were brain damamged when they did this. I would get some long exposition about something that was not the topic I had questioned. I would always steer it back with something like, "That is an interesting story, but you never answered my question. I am going to ask you again." The third time I would ask it, I pointed out that it was the third time and that if they did not answer it I would accept it that they did not know the answer to my question.

VM44

What about the Trinity brochure's list of references?

Wasn't that online at one time?

Black Sheep

she will try to steer things to "1914"

Ask her how they arrive at 1914. Question any logical fallacies she comes up with.

VM44

Watchtower's "Trinity" Booklet References

Section 1: Should You Believe It?

1. Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity (New York/London: G. P. Putnam's Sons, 1928), 197.

2. George Brantl, ed. Catholicism (New York, NY: George Braziller, 1961), 78.

Section 2: How Is the Trinity Explained?

3. The Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XV (New York, NY: Encyclopedia Press, 1912), 47.

4. Heraklion, Crete, Greece, court decision 87/1986, April 7, 1986, pp. 17, 19.

5. Athanasios S. Frangopoulos, Our Orthodox Christian Faith, 3rd ed. (Athens, Greece: Brotherhood of Theologians, 1985), 71.

6. New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XIV (Washington, DC: Catholic University of America, 1967), 304.

7. The Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 27 (New York, NY: Americana Corporation, 1977), 116.

8. GRIT: Stories of American Life and Traditions, (newspaper; Williamsport, PA): October 30, 1983, 12.

9. The New Yorker (magazine; New York, NY) March 23, 1987, 64.

10. L'Osservatore Romano, (newspaper; Vatican City): August 10, 1987, 4.

11. Lyman Abbott, ed. A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge (New York, NY: Harper & Brothers, 1875), 944.

12. New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XIV, 304.

13. Joseph A. Bracken, What Are They Saying About the Trinity? (New York, NY: Paulist Press, 1979), 1, 3.

14. Hans Küng, Christianity and the World Religions: Paths of Dialogue with Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism (Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1986), 113.

15. The Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XV, 47.

16. Karl Rahner and Herbert Vorgrimler, Theological Dictionary (New York, NY: Herder and Herder, 1965) p. 470.

Section 3: Was It Clearly a Bible Teaching?

17. The Illustrated Bible Dictionary, vol. 3 (Downers Grove, IL: Inter-Varsity Press, 1980), 1597.

18. The New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XIV, 304.

19. The Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XV, 47.

20. Michael O'Carroll, Trinitas: A Theological Encyclopedia of the Holy Trinity (Wilmington, DL: Michael Glazier, Inc., 1987), 208.

21. Mircea Eliade, ed. The Encyclopedia of Religion, vol. 15, (New York, NY: Macmillan, 1987), 54.

23. The New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XIV, 306.

24. Edmund J. Fortman, The Triune God (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1972), xv, 8-9.

25. The Encyclopedia of Religion, vol. 15, 54.

26. The Triune God, xv, xvi, 16.

27. The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edition. vol. 11 (Chicago, IL: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1985), 928.

28. Bernhard Lohse, A Short History of Christian Doctrine (Philadelphia, PA: Fortress Press, 1966) p. 38.

29. Colin Brown, ed. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, vol. 2, (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1976,) 84.

30. E. Washburn Hopkins, Origin and Evolution of Religion (New Haven, CT: Yale University Press, 1923), 336.

31. Paganism in Our Christianity, 197.

32. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, vol. 2, 84.

33. The Paganism in Our Christianity, 198.

34. James Hastings, ed. Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, vol. XII, (New York, NY: Charles Scribner & Sons, 1922), 461.

35. New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XIV, 299.

36. Alvan Lamson, The Church of the First Three Centuries (Boston, MA: Horace B. Fuller, 1869), 124-125.

37. Ibid., 70-71.

38. Ibid., 103.

39. Ibid., 106-108.

40. Ibid., 180.

41. Ibid, 182-183.

42. Ibid., 56-57.

Section 4: How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?

43. Henry Chadwick, The Early Church (Harmondsworth, England: Penguin Books, 1967), 122, 124.

44. Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 6, 386.

45. Short History of Christian Doctrine, 51.

46. New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 11, 689.

47. The Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 27, 117.

48. Catholicism, 69-70.

49. New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 1, 664-665; History of Dogma, vol. 4 [1958 edition], 136.

50. Origin and Evolution of Religion, 339.

51. Encyclopedia Americana, 294.

52. Will Durant, The Story of Civilization: Part III, Caesar and Christ (New York, NY: Simon and Schuster, 1944), 595.

53. Siegfried Morenz, Egyptian Religion (Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1973) 255.

54. Ibid., 257.

55. Edward Gibbon, History of Christianity (New York, NY: Peter Eckler, 1891), xvi.

56. Dictionary of Religious Knowledge, 944.

57. Paganism in Our Christianity, 197.

58. Encyclopaedia of Religion and Ethics, vol. XII, 458.

59. Maurice Lachatre, Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel, vol. 1 (Paris, n.d.), 1467, English translation in Watchtower, August 1, 1984, 21.

60. Samuel Macauley Jackson, ed. The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, vol. IX (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1957), 91.

61. Church of the First Three Centuries [1860 edition], 34.

62. Adolf Harnack, Outlines of the History of Dogma (Boston, MA: Beacon Press, 1957), 194.

63. Ibid.

64. Andrews Norton, A Statement of Reasons, 5th edition (Boston, MA: American Unitarian Association, 1872), 94, 104.

Section 5: What Does the Bible Say About God and Jesus?

65. Levi Leonard Paine, A Critical History of the Evolution of Trinitarianism (New York, NY: Riverside Press, 1900), 4.

66. Ibid.

67. William Smith, A Dictionary of the Bible, revised and edited by F. N. Peloubet and M. A. Peloubet (McLean, VA: MacDonald Publishing, 1948), 220.

68. The American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures, vol. XXI (1905): 208; Quoted in Insight on the Scriptures, vol. 1 (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, 1988), 968.

69. Ibid.

70. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, 150th Anniversary Edition (Springfield, MA: C. & G. Merriam Company, 1981), 99.

71. W. E. Vine, Vine's Expositor Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell Company, 1981), 140.

72. James Strong, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (New York, NY: Abingdon Press, 1890), 20, 49.

73. Edward Robinson, A Greek and English Lexicon of the New Testament (New York, NY: Harner & Brothers, 1850), 471.

74. Gerhard Kittel, ed. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. IV (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1967), 738, 740. Section 6: God Always Superior to Jesus

75. G.H. Boobyer, "Jesus as 'Theos' in the New Testament," Bulletin of the John Rylands Library 50 (1967-68): 258.

76. Ibid., 258-259.

77. Ibid., 251.

78. Ibid., 250.

Section 7: The Holy Spirit: God's Active Force

79. Our Orthodox Christian Faith, 71.

80. The Triune God, 9.

81. A. T. Robertson, Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, vol. I (New York and London: Harper & Brothers, 1930), 245.

82. The New American Bible (New York, NY: Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1970), 128.

83. Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 15, 49.

84. The Triune God, 6, 15.

85. New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. 14, 574.

86. Ibid., 575.

87. William E. Addis and Thomas Arnold, A Catholic Dictionary, revised by T. B. Scannell, P. E. Hallett, Gordon Albion and members of staff of St. John's Seminary (London: Routledge & Kegan Paul Limited,1960), 810.

88. Ibid., 812.

Section 8a: What About Trinity "Proof Texts"?

88. New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. XIV, 306.

90. John McClintock and James Strong, Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, vol. X, (New York: Harper, 1883-1887; Reprint edition, Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1981), 552.

91. Ibid.

92. Ibid.

93. John Calvin, Commentary on the Gospel According to John, trans. by William Pringle, vol. 1 (Edinburgh: Calvin Translation Society, 1847), 417.

94. The Holy Bible, Douay Version.

95. The Holy Bible, King James Version.

96. George R. Noyes, The New Testament: Translated from the Greek Text of Tischendorf (Boston, MA: American Unitarian Association, 1869), 432.

97. Friedrich Pfaffllin, Das Neue Testament in Der Scrache Von Heute (Verlegt Bei Eugen Salzer in Heilbronn, 1965), 381.

98. Arnoldo Mondadori, ed. La Bibbia Concordata (Societa Biblica Italiana, 1968) 1938.

99. Good News Bible, The Bible in Today's English Version.

100. New Jerusalem Bible.

101. Ralph P. Martin, The Epistle of Paul to the Philippians (London: Tyndale Press, 1959), 102.

103. A. A. Kennedy, The Expositor's Greek Testament: The Epistle to the Philippians, vol. 3. Edited by Robertson Nicoll (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1901; Reprint edition, Grand Rapids, MI: Wm B. Eerdmans, 1990).

104. The Holy Bible, Authorised King James Version.

105. Joseph H. Hertz, The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, vol. 1 (Oxford University Press, 1941), 215.

106. Noyes, New Testament.

107. The Bible, An American Translation.

108. Jörg Zink, Das Neue Testament, (Stuttgart: Krenzverlag, 1965), 230.

109. The Living Bible Paraphrased.

110. The Simple English Bible, New Testament.

111. The Living Bible Paraphrased.

Section 8b: What About Trinity "Proof Texts"?

112. The Holy Bible, King James Version.

113. Philip B. Harner, "Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 and John 1:1," Journal of Biblical Literature 92 (1973), 85.

114. The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the basis of Archbishop Newcome's New Translation: With A Corrected Text (London: Richard Taylor and Company, 1808).

115. Benjamin Wilson, The Emphatic Diaglott (New York, NY: Fowler & Wells, 1864).

116. La Bible du Centenaire, L'Evangile selon Jean, translation by Maurice Goguel, 1928.

117. The Bible, An American Translation.

118. Ludwig Thimme, Das Neue Testament, 1946, 219.

119. New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, 1950.

120. Tomanek Translation of the New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.

121. Siegfried Schulz, Das Evangelium nach Johannes (Göttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht, 1975).

122. Johannes Schneider, Das Evanqelium nach Johannes, 1978.

123. Harner, "Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns," JBL 92 (1973), 85.

124. Ibid., 87.

125. Joseph Henry Thayer's Personal Copy of Griesbach's Greek New Testament Text, 1809, with Thayer's handwritten comments on John 1:1 interleaved.

126. John L. McKenzie, Dictionary of the Bible (New York, NY: Macmillan, 1965), 317.

127. E. C. Colwell, "A Definite Rule for the Use of the Article in the Greek New Testament," Journal of Biblical Literature, 52 (1933): 20.

128. Ibid.

129. Boobyer, "Jesus as 'Theos,' BJRL, 253.

130. Ibid.

Section 9: Worship God on His Terms

131. The Amplified Bible.

132. New Catholic Encyclopedia, vol. X, 21.

133. Ibid., vol. IX, 359.

134. Christianity and the World Religions, 113.

135. TIME (magazine; New York, NY: Time Inc.): December 16, 1946, 64.

Black Sheep

John 20:28 is their weakest scripture.

You have to ask them questions to get them to cut off every every escape route they have before you get them to read it. Walter Martin gave a demo on how to to do it. It's an mp3 or Real file. probably here http://ucapologetics.com/cults.htm

I had fear in the eyes of one JW when I read out the other contents of Arthur Weigal's book, I have my own copy, but it made no difference. That one would sell it's soul to the Devil before it admitted the WT was crooked. One again I got it wrong. I should have just lent them the book and then asked them a question or two later.

theopug

its out of print, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHH1_UC9S4

whathappened

Welcome 86theWT. We agree with you.

00DAD

You can find references to it on the jw.org website, but you can't find the brochure itself:

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200275293?q=should+you+believe+in+the+trinity&p=par

fiat lux 001

Hello everyone!
I'm a longtime reader, but this is my first post on this forum...

I realize this is a rather old thread, but regarding the Watchtower's "Should you believe in the Trinity?" magazine---

Since the WT seems to recently have begun the process of making that booklet disappear, I wanted to point out that there are still 'scanned' versions of it floating around the net. And if you're really desperate, the booklet can also be found (for the moment) on the WT's "Library" CD's, which are fairly easy to find/purchase.

You can bet that the WT is going to do its best to make even those sources disappear though. So, if you want a copy, you might want to grab one soon.

..........................................

Those who are interested in the SYBITT booklet, might want to check out the following blog---

http://www.jwinfo003.wordpress.com

There, you will find actual *PHOTOS*--- Photos/scans of both some of the SYBITT booklet's various 'quotes' & paraphrases & the corresponding original statements that the WT is 'quoting'/paraphrasing.

Being able to easily compare things that way, makes it very apparent that the WT has *INTENTIONALLY* misrepresented the facts.

So, the above blog may definitely be worth a look.

Trinity booklet PDF

Watchtower's "Trinity" Booklet References

Share this