Counselled on chatting to a study!

by Penn9 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • teel

    My advice would be to try to sort of date her alone in public places. If she's not so deep in the study she should accept it. While dating is not accepted, it's not grounds for DF, so if you talk your way out of it, the most they can do to you is a private reproof. Your "friends" will probably be colder to you, but you can have her. Now, if you get to that point, while dating talk about religion too, in a non-confrontive manner, encouraging her to do more research, maybe even mention the internet. Don't be too direct with her, as it may trigger the cult defense mechanisms she seems to already have. If you haven't, read Steve Hassan's books - maybe try to get an electronic copy so it's less likely that someone finds out. Or if you can't do that, read the forums here often, to get tips on how to approach someone to help them out of the cult.

    In the long run maybe you convince her to not get baptized - that should be your first priority, because if she does get baptized and goes into full fledged cult member, in time your relationship / eventual marriage would be a disaster with you not believing in the cult. If you do get her out, you can still date and even marry her - this is also not grounds for DF. An old JW schoolmate told me she is looking only among non-JWs for a mate, because the JW husband she had was an alcoholic cheater, and she knows her chances are very slim to have a good "brother" to marry her with a divorce and a kid. The WT is very legalistic, and this can be used to your advantage if you know the rules.

  • Millions

    Hi and welcome!

    Above all else, this should make you seriously consider getting out altogether. You can't win within the system, you will always be under surveillance no matter how high up you rise, so you either need to tell the girl privately how you feel about the 'truth' and hope she starts to think for herself, or walk away.

    Of course you could stick it out, be squeaky clean, hope that you and her can get married one day, and then slowly try to help her realise the reality of the organisation. But if you ask me that is a high-risk long-term strategy that could see you end up wasting your whole life... but it's your call :P

    On another note, this is exactly the sort of scenario that crops up in the congregations - whenever someone we are even remotely attracted to shows up, we read it as if this is our chance, this is the one. Because we limit our circle of association to our own congregation or maybe surrounding congregations, the pool of potential partners is ridiculously small, and we end up appraising people by overlooking basic conditions that are pretty essential to a relationship succeeding. The pressure to a) get married in the first place like everyone else in the cong wants you to, b) find someone half suitable, and c) grab them as fast as possible before anyone else does, is just immense. Not to mention the raging hormones factor. So who cares if we're really that well suited or not, she looked hot in her assembly outfit, or he gives such nice comments at the WT study, or she likes one of the bands I do! That's good enough for me, now just get me to the KH on time!

    It really is not a good environment to be starting a relationship. The JW marriages that genuinely succeed and where the people are still genuinely happy and in love years later, are the exceptions rather than the rule imo. The no divorce policy makes people stay together even if they have realised they don't actually get on so well, rather than risk becoming social pariahs and losing face or status. Sure they can grow to be fond of each other over time, but that's not what it's all about surely... Who gives a damn about successful marriage statistics, happiness is far more important.

    Anyway good luck in the weeks months and years ahead, just remember this little episode, there will almost certainly be more of them, and one day you will hopefully find yourself looking back on them as the straws that broke the camels back.

  • WontLeave

    I know from first-hand experience "stumbling" is a catch-all term invoked by JWs who don't like something you're doing, but can't come up with any reason it's actually wrong. The busybodies and cowards know if they use the word "stumble" to the elders, they'll do their dirty work for them. This exact tactic was used in an attempt to force Jesus and his followers to wash their hands to the elbow. Depending on how much of a front you want to put on - for family, friends, etc. - thank the elders for their "concern" and "counsel" and you'll take it into consideration, but the decision is ultimately yours. I've done this and I can tell you, you will not be popular with that committee and they will be gunning for you from then on.

  • mickeyman1

    Penn there is an excellent movie similar to your problems and based on the real story.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi penn9. Welcome to the forum.

    I'll give you my opinion from the point of view of a non-baptised born-in married to an Anglican who then converted to JW.

    Not getting baptised was the only thing I ever got right regarding my parent's cult.

    If either of you do not fully understand that the Watchtower was not selected by Jesus, in 1919, to be God's sole channel of communication in our day, you are damaged goods and are not marriageable material.

    If you don't understand that, you need to get your butt down to the library and get some books out on critical thinking and start doing some serious homework. She needs to do the same.

    Every doubt you ever had about any doctrine/rule/whatever you had about the Watchtower, you need to investigate in a thorough manner without letting your parent's indoctrination influence you.

    Don't tell your family anything .... only ask questions .... insist on honest answers .... point out any double standards they try to force on you. The best thing for now is to say nothing. Read the July WT and commit to memory every warning sign that JWs use to ID an apostate and don't do anything that rings their bells.

    It's bloody hard to put the cat back in the box.



  • ProdigalSon

    Welcome Penn9. If you can get the girl to fall for you, then tell her what you know, get out of this cult, and live happily ever after. You don't need any of them, they're not real friends and they will leave you in a ditch if you refuse to worship the FDS.

  • Heartofaboy

    They're just JEALOUS as HELL Penn9....take no notice of the idiots.

  • s0rt3d

    Lots of good advice here already. I almost let The Org. come between me and my 'worldly' partner. I'm glad I didn't! We've been happily married two years now. I hate to think of all I'd have missed out on in the last few years if I'd not rejected the controling rules of the WBTS and made that initial call which led to us becoming a couple.

    My circumstances were different though - none of my family were or are 'in' and I no longer had any priviledges to lose. I suppose you've got to decide how important this person is to you and how much you are willing to risk in going after your own 'happily ever after....'

  • Mat

    It's probably obvious you two get on, and it makes people jellous. Bon't bother hide it, you are doing nothing wrong. You are not breaking any of their rules. They know if they challenge you too much they could push you away, so just tell them you are not commiting fornication, and you will talk to and sit with who you like. They can't disfellowship you.

    You have to stand up to bullies. Oh and Hello and welcome.

  • beenthere26yr

    Call her up.

    Ask her on a date.

    Go out and have sex with her.

    Report it to the elders.

    They will boot you both out.

    It will be the best thing you ever do.

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