What's the Watchtower's current stance on...

by FifthOfNovember 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • FifthOfNovember
    FifthOfNovember

    The big bang?

    -Do they leave room for it as a possibility for Jehovah to have created the universe? (I heard an elder say once that the society doesn't necessarily rule out the big bang as a possiblity)

    Evolution?

    -I know large scale evolution is a big no-no according to them but what about small scale?

    Dinosaurs?

    -According to the Watchtower, what happened to the dinosaurs?

    The age of the human species?

    -Do they believe we only existed for 6,000 years?

    I never really knew the Watchtower's stance on these topics, so I appreciate your answers!

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    No they don't leave room for any scientific fact or hypothesis. A couple of months ago that was in a watchtower that there is to be no deviation to bend the JW faith to fit scientific theories/facts on ourselves. That job is for the Governing Body (although it's not spelled out like that, it basically comes down to that)

    Dinosaurs went extinct with the flood or before that.

    No they don't believe ANYMORE that stuff only existed for 6k years. They took on parts of the "new age" creationists view that the creation days were longer than 1 day, 1000 years (as it was before) or any specified amount of time although some older JW's still haven't caught onto that. They do believe humans (homo sapiens) existed for little over 6k years with Adam being the first.

  • sir82
    sir82

    They sometimes reference it, when it suits them, along the lines of "See? Even scientists recognize that the universe had a beginning, just like the Bible says."

    Other than that, the collective intelligence of the entire Bethel staff would be hard-pressed to understand a general college textbook on science, so that's about the extent of it.

  • jdh
    jdh

    hi FifthofNovember, your question is of interest to me. This means it has spiritual value on the basis of faith.

    Ok the "Big Bang" didn't happen. I'd like to repeat this. The Big Bang didn't happen.

    Of course, there will be ones saying "Oh jdh, how absurd, how do you know?". Well two answers really. Here's the first....

    1. Firstly, read Genesis chapter 1. You will note that sea creatures and flying creatures came first. Seperate and very Distinct. Thus sea creatures did not "evolve" into LAND creatures (oh my oh my, when will Darwin-insists accept that Darwin whom supposedly discovered "evolution" actually proved ADAPTION?). A finches beak is still a finch, afterall, yes? What, you say? ....Clawed birds from Brazil, are they arcaeopteryx?

    Sorry, but I appear to have spelt the name incorrectly because I couldn't be bothered to construct it properly or form the proper conclusion. Any unreasoning scientists, please kindly take note. Along with Coelacanth, Lucy (still in a museum despite numerous scientific reproofs) and Neanderthal man.

    LAND creatures (wild beasts and domesticated animals) came along the following creative day. Thus, a seperate and very distinct timeframe by Jehovah God. And NO this does not represent ONE earth day, however what actually is "time" to a God whom is not subject to time Himself?

    Here is the 2nd reason:

    Moses did record for humankind matters of spiritual importance for us all, ahead of time, so that we all might actually gain the knowledge, understanding and wisdom in faith toward Jehovah God.

    Moses words were recorded 3,500 years ago and STILL withstand the test of time. Namely that the earth stood compact in space without atmosphere, void and without the light necessary for life until Jehovah God purposed life upon it.

    This undeniable and incredible prediction was without Moses having scientific knowledge like that of good, unbiased and trustworthy scientists of today.

    Surely this in itself can be regarded as quite remarkable and faith strengthening.

    Love, jdh.

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    I have heard it said that something like the big bang is possible, but it would have been a controlled act by the creator rather than something chaotic and accidental.

  • pirata
    pirata

    BIG BANG (probably not)

    *** g96 1/22 pp. 3-6 What the Big Bang Explains—What It Doesn’t ***

    The Awesome Universe

    What the Big Bang Explains—What It Doesn’t

    EVERY morning is a miracle. Deep inside the morning sun, hydrogen is being fused into helium at temperatures of millions of degrees. X rays and gamma rays of incredible violence are pouring out of the core into the surrounding layers of the sun. If the sun were transparent, these rays would blast their way to the surface in a few searing seconds. Instead, they begin to bounce from tightly packed atom to atom of solar “insulation,” gradually losing energy. Days, weeks, centuries, pass. Thousands of years later, that once deadly radiation finally emerges from the sun’s surface as a gentle shower of yellow light—no longer a menace but just right for bathing earth with its warmth.

    Every night is a miracle too. Other suns twinkle at us across the vast expanse of our galaxy. They are a riot of colors, sizes, temperatures, and densities. Some are supergiants so large that if one were centered in the position of our sun, what remained of our planet would be inside the surface of that superstar. Other suns are tiny, white dwarfs—smaller than our earth, yet as heavy as our sun. Some will peacefully drone along for billions of years. Others are poised on the brink of supernova explosions that will obliterate them, briefly outshining entire galaxies.

    Primitive peoples spoke of sea monsters and battling gods, of dragons and turtles and elephants, of lotus flowers and dreaming gods. Later, during the so-called Age of Reason, the gods were swept aside by the newfound “magic” of calculus and Newton’s laws. Now we live in an age bereft of the old poetry and legend. The children of today’s atomic age have chosen as their paradigm for creation, not the ancient sea monster, not Newton’s “machine,” but that overarching symbol of the 20th century—the bomb. Their “creator” is an explosion. They call their cosmic fireball the big bang.

    What the Big Bang “Explains”

    The most popular version of this generation’s view of creation states that some 15 to 20 billion years ago, the universe did not exist, nor did empty space. There was no time, no matter—nothing except an infinitely dense, infinitely small point called a singularity, which exploded into the present universe. That explosion included a brief period during the first tiny fraction of a second when the infant universe inflated, or expanded, much faster than the speed of light.

    During the first few minutes of the big bang, nuclear fusion took place on a universal scale, giving rise to the currently measured concentrations of hydrogen and helium and at least part of the lithium in interstellar space. After perhaps 300,000 years, the universewide fireball dropped to a little below the temperature of the surface of the sun, allowing electrons to settle into orbits around atoms and releasing a flash of photons, or light. That primordial flash can be measured today, although greatly cooled off, as universal background radiation at microwave frequencies corresponding to a temperature of 2.7 Kelvin. In fact, it was the discovery of this background radiation in 1964-65 that convinced most scientists that there was something to the big bang theory. The theory also claims to explain why the universe appears to be expanding in all directions, with distant galaxies apparently racing away from us and from each other at high speed.

    Since the big bang theory appears to explain so much, why doubt it? Because there is also much that it does not explain. To illustrate: The ancient astronomer Ptolemy had a theory that the sun and planets went around the earth in large circles, making small circles, called epicycles, at the same time. The theory appeared to explain the motion of the planets. For centuries as astronomers gathered more data, the Ptolemaic cosmologists could always add extra epicycles onto their other epicycles and “explain” the new data. But that did not mean the theory was correct. Ultimately there was just too much data to account for, and other theories, such as Copernicus’ idea that the earth went around the sun, explained things better and more simply. Today it is hard to find a Ptolemaic astronomer!

    Professor Fred Hoyle likened the efforts of the Ptolemaic cosmologists at patching up their failing theory in the face of new discoveries to the endeavors of big bang believers today to keep their theory afloat. He wrote in his book The Intelligent Universe: “The main efforts of investigators have been in papering over contradictions in the big bang theory, to build up an idea which has become ever more complex and cumbersome.” After referring to Ptolemy’s futile use of epicycles to rescue his theory, Hoyle continued: “I have little hesitation in saying that as a result a sickly pall now hangs over the big bang theory. As I have mentioned earlier, when a pattern of facts becomes set against a theory, experience shows that it rarely recovers.”—Page 186.

    The New Scientist magazine of December 22/29, 1990, echoed similar thoughts: “The Ptolemaic method has been lavishly applied to . . . the big bang cosmological model.” It then asks: “How can we achieve real progress in particle physics and cosmology? . . . We must be more honest and forthright about the purely speculative nature of some of our most cherished assumptions.” New observations are now pouring in.

    Questions the Big Bang Does Not Answer

    A major challenge to the big bang has come from observers using the corrected optics of the Hubble Space Telescope to measure distances to other galaxies. The new data is giving the theorists fits!

    Astronomer Wendy Freedman and others recently used the Hubble Space Telescope to measure the distance to a galaxy in the constellation of Virgo, and her measurement suggests that the universe is expanding faster, and therefore is younger, than previously thought. In fact, it “implies a cosmic age as little as eight billion years,” reported Scientific American magazine just last June. While eight billion years sounds like a very long time, it is only about half the currently estimated age of the universe. This creates a special problem, since, as the report goes on to note, “other data indicate that certain stars are at least 14 billion years old.” If Freedman’s numbers hold up, those elderly stars would turn out to be older than the big bang itself!

    Still another problem for the big bang has come from steadily mounting evidence of “bubbles” in the universe that are 100 million light-years in size, with galaxies on the outside and voids inside. Margaret Geller, John Huchra, and others at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics have found what they call a great wall of galaxies some 500 million light-years in length across the northern sky. Another group of astronomers, who became known as the Seven Samurai, have found evidence of a different cosmic conglomeration, which they call the Great Attractor, located near the southern constellations of Hydra and Centaurus. Astronomers Marc Postman and Tod Lauer believe something even bigger must lie beyond the constellation Orion, causing hundreds of galaxies, including ours, to stream in that direction like rafts on a sort of “river in space.”

    All this structure is baffling. Cosmologists say the blast from the big bang was extremely smooth and uniform, according to the background radiation it allegedly left behind. How could such a smooth start have led to such massive and complex structures? “The latest crop of walls and attractors intensifies the mystery of how so much structure could have formed within the 15-billion-year age of the universe,” admits Scientific American—a problem that only gets worse as Freedman and others roll back the estimated age of the cosmos still more.

    “We Are Missing Some Fundamental Element”

    Geller’s three-dimensional maps of thousands of clumped, tangled, and bubbled galactic agglomerations have transformed the way scientists picture the universe. She does not pretend to understand what she sees. Gravity alone appears unable to account for her great wall. “I often feel we are missing some fundamental element in our attempts to understand this structure,” she admits.

    Geller enlarged on her misgivings: “We clearly do not know how to make large structure in the context of the Big Bang.” Interpretations of cosmic structure on the basis of current mapping of the heavens are far from definitive—more like trying to picture the whole world from a survey of Rhode Island, U.S.A. Geller continued: “Someday we may find that we haven’t been putting the pieces together in the right way, and when we do, it will seem so obvious that we’ll wonder why we hadn’t thought of it much sooner.”

    That leads to the biggest question of all: What is supposed to have caused the big bang itself? No less an authority than Andrei Linde, one of the originators of the very popular inflationary version of the big bang theory, frankly admits that the standard theory does not address this fundamental question. “The first, and main, problem is the very existence of the big bang,” he says. “One may wonder, What came before? If space-time did not exist then, how could everything appear from nothing? . . . Explaining this initial singularity—where and when it all began—still remains the most intractable problem of modern cosmology.”

    An article in Discover magazine recently concluded that “no reasonable cosmologist would claim that the Big Bang is the ultimate theory.”

    Microevolution (yes)

    *** lc p. 18 Evolution—Myths and Facts ***

    Before answering that question, we need to clear up something. Many scientists have noted that over time, the descendants of living things may change slightly. For example, humans can selectively breed dogs so that eventually the descendants have shorter legs or longer hair than their forebears. Some scientists attach to such slight changes the term “microevolution.”

    However, evolutionists teach that small changes accumulated slowly over billions of years and produced the big changes needed to make fish into amphibians and apelike creatures into men. These proposed big changes are defined as “macroevolution.”\

    Dinosaurs (yes)

    *** g90 2/8 What Happened to the Dinosaurs? ***

    The Genesis Account and Dinosaurs

    While the radioactive dating method is innovative, it is still based on speculation and assumption. In contrast, the Bible account in the first chapter of Genesis simply states the general order of creation. It allows for possibly thousands of millions of years for the formation of the earth and many millenniums in six creative eras, or “days,” to prepare the earth for human habitation.

    Some dinosaurs (and pterosaurs) may indeed have been created in the fifth era listed in Genesis, when the Bible says that God made “flying creatures” and “great sea monsters.” Perhaps other types of dinosaurs were created in the sixth epoch. The vast array of dinosaurs with their huge appetites would have been appropriate considering the abundant vegetation that evidently existed in their time.—Genesis 1:20-24.

    When the dinosaurs had fulfilled their purpose, God ended their life. But the Bible is silent on how he did that or when. We can be sure that dinosaurs were created by Jehovah for a purpose, even if we do not fully understand that purpose at this time. They were no mistake, no product of evolution. That they suddenly appear in the fossil record unconnected to any fossil ancestors, and also disappear without leaving connecting fossil links, is evidence against the view that such animals gradually evolved over millions of years of time. Thus, the fossil record does not support the evolution theory. Instead, it harmonizes with the Bible’s view of creative acts of God.

    [Blurb on page 10]

    The fossil record of the dinosaurs supports not evolution but creation

    6,000 years (yes)

    *** w07 8/15 p. 22 par. 4 Jehovah Is a Lover of Justice ***

    4 For some 6,000 years since the rebellion in Eden, injustice has been part of human society.

  • Ashikae
    Ashikae

    Their stance is...spread legs, shove head up a$$.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    The Watchtower a couple weeks ago accommodated a lengthy creation by suggesting that a creative day could be "eons".

  • JonathanH
    JonathanH

    I still can't tell if jdh is a joke account or not. I ALMOST start to reply then I think to myself "I'm beig punked aren't I?" and then stop.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Even though they have now changed their view that each creative day is not 7,000 years but eons of time they have not clearly stated whether they still view the 7th day as still only 7,000 years.

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