why are australian jehovah's witnesses so reluctant to take legal action ?

by exjw1978 10 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • exjw1978
    exjw1978

    it bewilderers me how reluctant exjw australians are to take legal action on sexual, mental, physical and spiritual abuse !

    im an australian grew up during the failed generation prophecy and almost every kid i knew in my congregation was being molested by brother so and so ... or "elder so and so who looks after little sister whilst witnessing...... blar blar blar

    we all knew it .... us kids that is ... thought it was the norm ..... unspoken secrets we shared our stories with "promise to Jehovah not to tell but ..... or did you know he's doing it to her as well ........

    it makes me a tad bit angry that us aussies dont have the guts the U.S has had .....

    does anyone know of a single lawsuit by an ex australian jehovah's witness regarding sexual abuse ?

    and if you are australian active/or exjw why are we so reluctant to even address the issue ?

  • 3Mozzies
    3Mozzies
    if you are Australian active/or exjw why are we so reluctant to even address the issue ?

    Hi exjw1978, I am not reluctant to address the issue, I personally do not know anyone that was abused. If I was abused I would easily take the bastard to court.

    does anyone know of a single lawsuit by an ex Australian Jehovah's witness regarding sexual abuse ?

    Have you seen this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD4ISURP8M8

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    why don't you adress the issue?

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    It is extremely costly to take such a case to court, with very little chance of success. In America, out of 1 million Witnesses and probably many thousands molested, only a few dozen have gone to court. Some of the most watertight were done together as a class action, so resources could be pooled.

    There is a difference between taking the molester to court, and taking a religion to court. It must be proven that the religion specifically facilitated the actions of the perpetrator, and that usually can only be done in rare cases with elders.

    Regarding legal action against being disfellowshipped, it is almost impossible to win a court case. Politics and Law do not want to get involved with "spiritual" matters and prefer to allow religions to do their own thing in this regard.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Ask the parents.

    Welcome to the forum.

    Chris

  • RADHESYAM
    RADHESYAM

    Frsitly I was never physically abused and I never knew anyone who was - our Congo was pretty good like that.

    But Paul has a good point and thats that you have to prove it has been faciitated by the top levels.

    There was an important case involving Hare Krishna children who had been sent away to their schools and were physically and sexually beaten and even tortured.. but it was all very extreme stuff ... they took class action but things were very drawn out.

    They filed in 2000 but the case dragged on until 2008 when they WON (timeline and documents here: http://surrealist.org/gurukula/timeline/lawsuit.html )

    They won $20Million BUT...and here is the big BUT: Most of it has never been paid out. Why? Because ISKCON (the hare Krishna organisation, who ironically are also called the Governing Body Commission) FILED FOR BUNKRUPTCY soon after!

    In the case of the dubs it might be very hard to prove they have facilitated anything... there is always that "2 witness" rule that makes it VERY hard for a victim to get help - but I wouldn't like the chances of an entire case restign on that alone.

    And if the Hare Krishnas with ALL their temples made of GOLD, their jeewels etc etc can pull of bankruptcy - you can sure as hell bet the WTS would do it too - after all what do they have? Bethel and a bunch of books.

  • aSphereisnotaCircle
    aSphereisnotaCircle

    Does Australia have a statute of limitations on such things?

    Here in the US, we do.

    And unfortunately, when kids are abused, it takes them years to grow up, and then a few more years to come to grips with what happened to them and have the emotional ability to do something about it.

    By then, they can no longer legally do anything about it.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I am an American lawyer but the same principles apply because we are former colonies of Great Britain. Law does not equal justice. They certainly have a relationship but one is not a definition of the other. Law only covers specific areas of life, not justice in the Jesus sense of Sermon on the Mount. People talk to me all the time about demanding to sue someone b/c of a wrong. You need a law on the books. Lawsuits, esp.. here in the States, drag on forever and are drainiing for all parties, esp. the plaintiffs (the ones suing). A letter to a large newspaper would prob. get you more justice. If only suit proceeds, it is not as press worthy as a class action.

    After 9/11, Congress passed legislation to compensate the victims. Clearly, they could still sue in regular court and win more money. A normal law suit, however, could take more than ten years. There is no guarantee of a monetary judgment. After a trial court enters judgment, the appeals process is even slower. With the exception of a few very wealthy families, everyone opted for fash cash up front. Many families with vast sums of money and sophistication remarked money was not worth the stress on their lives. They needed to memorialize the person and engage in meaningful activities to make some sense of the loss.

    Law evolved around commerce/trade and crimes, primarily against the state, over centuries. Many rape victims agree to plea deals or tell no one b/c the more serious assault occurs at trial. Defense lawyers can ask demeaning, crushing questions. My own experience is an illustration. I broke my ankle at the YMCA, slipping outside the pool area. Negligence is not my strong suit but I know the law and procedures. I thought I could be detached. Well, I was wrong. My emotions get stirred up. It is a simple, little lawsuit but it can engulf me. A prominent NY doctor specialized in a rare, vicious cancer. He became afflicted. He thought it would be a great teaching example b/c he could be detached and teach. He became totally swamped by the illness, despite his expertise.

    Some lawsuits make sense. I worked in the civil rights movement. The groups meet and plot strategy. One group does not want to mess up another group's litigation. The coordination is tremendous. When I worked for NOW, local lawyers were sending cases up through the federal appeals and Supreme Court. Law profs and more seasoned lawyers were keenly aware that this course was disastrous. Their aim was to stay out of federal court because a loss is staggering in its aftermath. I am not suggesting not to sue to enforce a right. Merely, that law is very different than TV law.

    Australia may have procedures, separate from sex abuse, that make it hard to make these claims. Burdens of proof are important. Important evidence might be barred. Statutes of limitations exist. Finally, I believe money makes predators and their henchmen accountable. Sex abuse is impulsive, though. Money will not reverse a PTSD problem. It doesn't hurt, though, does it?

  • dgp
    dgp
    Regarding legal action against being disfellowshipped, it is almost impossible to win a court case. Politics and Law do not want to get involved with "spiritual" matters and prefer to allow religions to do their own thing in this regard.

    I like JWFacts' post. I'm highlighting this particular paragraph because it helps introduce my comment.

    I think Politics is more reluctant to deal with religions than Law is. The reason is, religions do play political roles. No one would like to appear as the persecutor of the faith.

    And then, save for a few cases, where Politics does mess with religion the reason tends to be Politics, not human rights or justice, which, as Band says, is not the same as Law. An easy example would be the way that European communists messed with all the religions they had in their lands, and the payback they took with John Paul II.

    Not personally, but I have known of one case of a priest who actually abused children but was not prosecuted until it was convenient to do so. And then, the priest in question was right to say it was persecution, rather than prosecution, even if abuse had actually happened.

    In my opinion, there is a real tragedy in the fact that self-called "higher interests" keep people not just from receiving or demanding justice, but from even understanding that no religious leader can claim authority to abuse what he calls "his" flock. This should be very easy to see. It should be very easy to understand that abuse is abuse no matter who did it, and that prosecuting a religious leader does not necessarily mean persecuting the faith. It should be a matter of justice, period.

    The faithful should also have no problem understanding that religious hierarchs are not authorities in this world. If anything, they are "authorities" in their field of interest, just as a small child with an unusual interest in butterflies could grow to be the leading "authority" in Hymenoptera. I hope the nuance in the word "authority" is clear. I wouldn't take orders from a man who could tell me why "Butterflius wonderfulius" is different from "Butterflius amazingus".

    I think Band on the Run is correct in saying that law is not the same as justice, and procedures do not exist for every form of abuse. But not taking religious hierarchs to be worthy of submission for that simple fact would prevent much abuse. I think taking money from an unsuspecting member of the herd is reprehensible as well, if not in court, out of it (and, just to be clear, I don't mean killing the man or cutting his you know what).

    Many countries have had strong intellectuals who have had a look at their history and have understood that religious power has to be kept in check as well. Religious power tends to corrupt, and absolute religious power corrupts absolutely. This should also be easy to understand for religious authorities as well.

    I understand all the treasures in the Vatican have no monetary value. The Catholic Church has taken the legal steps of the case to make it impossible for any one pope to sell all the great things the Vatican holds. If this church was able to understand that someone could be tempted, and took the steps to preventing it, why shouldn't all churches understand that they should also take steps to limit their own ability to inflict pain, so that no fanatic takes the church too far? And this shouldn't come from external pressure, but from their own wish to do no harm.

  • Roski
    Roski

    Even with simple cases it is not easy. I have a matter being investigated by the Adult Guardian Office, so no cost to me in terms of dollars.

    It would be far too costly to take the matter to court at this time and the society knows that. They are playing the waiting game. A matter my lawyer says "leaves a very bad taste in my mouth".

    I think the law is for the rich - an everyday wage earner is generally not financially capable of taking on a large organisation. The society and its lawyers are very arrogant and dishonest - and they don't care that other people know it.

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