Answer from a JW friend about blood

by uncle_onion 36 Replies latest jw friends

thinker

"What is forbidden?
This is a complex question. As you may know the WTS still prohibits whole blood and certain blood components namely, red cells, white cells, platelets and plasma. But here is the key: they allow everything inside of these components to be used.
If you discount the membranes of the red cells, white cells and platelets, they are allowing somewhere between 97 and 98% of the blood. However, the membrane is stroma (protein/enzyme) and as a fraction it too would be permitted. So technically the WTS permits 100% of the blood in fractionated form." (from AJWRB.org)
If God said, "Don't eat eggs.", the Watchtower policy would be that egg whites were OK and egg yolks were OK; just don't eat them together.
uncle_onion

Just got his latest answer to my questions. I think he forgot we were talking about blood!
UO
what was Jehovah's original purpose for Adam to go to
heaven or live on the earth if he did not sin?
gen 1:28
plasm 37:29- the righteous themselves will poss the
earth and they will reside forever upon it.
read isiah 45:18
ecclesiastes 1:4
isiah 65:17
psamls 115-16 says as regards the heavens to Jehovah
they belong,but the earth he has given to the son's of
men.
did not Jesus say on the sermon on the mounthappy are
the mild tempered ones , sinse they will inheret the
earth habakkuk 2-14,the earth will be filled with the
knowledge of Jehovah.
psalm 45:16
you talk about those who died because theye were
jehovah's witnesses.
they did it for their faith
what about the hundreds of millions who have died
because of hate for their fellow man -who were urged
on by their religeous leaders.
look to day what problems false religion is causing so
much blood sheed. moslems are killing thousands every
day, catholics the same, all the otheres are killing
every day
but yopu see no problem wuth that. come here and see
every car with an american flag on it. every house
with an american flag on it.
come see the hatred of fellow human beings.
houses all have signs on the GOD BLESS AMERICA,on many
stores.on cars,movie theators,tv comercials. What
about DOD bless all men.rich or poor.
if you go to heaven you have to die. why is death so
undesirable, would you rejoice if Luke died knowing he
went to heaven.
john when we left England You gave me a kiss on the
cheek. I looked at you as such a close brother. Did
not Judas do the same
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hawkaw

Time to let it be for a while.
Just keep it simple and on one subject - Ask him this question. Ask him why the WTS does allow for a white blood cell transfusion when the June 15, 2000 WT rag QFR (pp 29-31) says white blood cells are banned? If you need to state the references:
"Clinical and Ethical Issues in the Treatment of a Jehovah's Witness With Acute Myeloblastic Leukemia", Dr. Ian Kerridge et al., August 25, 1997 edition, Archives of Internal Medicine, Volume 157, pages 1753-1757
and
"Medical Ethics in the Treatment of Jehovah's Witnesses", Dr. Osamu Muramoto, May 25, 1998 edition Archives of Internal Medicine, Volume 158, Editor's Correspondence, pages 1155-1156
hawk
LDH

Hawk is right--leave it be. Push it any further and you'll be labelled apostate. which you may or may not care about, but this dude certainly won't listen to another word you have to say.
Believe me, he is thinking about what you said. But the automatic defense system is now in operation.
So just leave it be for now.
As usual, excellent reply from Hawkaw and now TD too. Hope I didnt forget anyone, there's a ton of great info here.
My problem is that I can't even focus on this shit long enough to formulate a reasonable argument with my parents. Maybe I'll start a thread about that and look for you all's advice.
Lisa
Solace

Thank you Skully for your kind words,
Its sad when my entire family who should be upset by the whole thing actually encouraged it. Im really not sure any amount of reasoning would have changed his mind. I dont think a devout J.W. would change his way of thinking if you had a room full of therapists.
Thanks again,
Scully

uncle_onion:
your friend writes:
john when we left England You gave me a kiss on the cheek. I looked at you as such a close brother. Did not Judas do the same
Does he think he's Jesus now??? [8>]
He's really doing his level best to avoid the issue.
Never mind all that, look at how bad the Catholics are. Look at how bad the Muslims are. Look at all these Americans with their "God Bless America" signs and flags all over the place. Isn't that just awful?? You don't see JWs doing that, do you??
No, what we see, Bob, is JWs teaching that 99.9% of the world's population is going to get obliterated because they aren't JWs. They don't say "God Bless America" because they don't believe God likes anyone but them. What we see are JWs happily looking forward to the mass murder of 6.5 BILLION men, women and children at the hands of their "god".
Bob should be so proud of that.
Love, Scully
In the desert things find a way to survive. Secrets are like this too. They work their way up through the sands of deception so men can know them. - The X Files
Solace

Scully,
I cant believe we had to grow up looking at those kind of images in our bible story books. Ya' know, I thought it was normal. I thought all the kids looked at books showing people being tortured and killed. God, I cant believe Im not total mental case after living like that. Ya' notice I said total. [8>]
Why do you think that some kids come out of it o.k. but then some go off the deep end? suicide etc.?
uncle_onion

Thanks again for your help. Here is Bobs latest reply to me:
jehovah's witnesses cannot receive a white blood cell
transfusion. I am getting more information from dr
Rufo today hopefully. the hemotologist. by the way if
one gets white cells,platlets,red cells, one has to
sign a blood transfusion permit. the is no permit to
be signed if one gets immune globulin,albumin,or
antibodies in the form of a vaccine.by the way what
were all those pepole killed who believed in something
that the watchtower later changed.I have some
information about mistakes the apostles made and an
article about why christians should be organized which
you said we do not.and it mentions miscalculations by
watch tower society. again it is a horrible thing to
try to predict a date for Jesus return. but killing
millions of people by other religions means nothing to
you. you find fault in such little things and yet do
not see the big things done by all other major
religions. just in my case all the love shown by
brothers and sisters in pennsylvania ,dozzens ere
there right away to help us with just about every
thing.
remember love is the important thing.
hawkaw

So one can't get a white blood cell transfusion eh...Hehehe.
Oh we got to keep going. Sorry I can't stop - now. Lets get this "stuck" in his head permanently for later and then stop.
Remember just key on the one topic - white blood cells and remember don't "slam" him just state the facts.
Uncle_Onion, click below and go read the articles yourself in Appendix 5. I suggest you copy the 1997 article from this essay at Osarif's site(at the very end of the document) and attach it to your Email. Copy it by putting your mouse curser over the image and then right click. Then save the image (picture) to your hardrive. Then repeat the process for the next 4 pages that make up Dr. Kerridge's article (article is 5 pages long). Don't copy Dr. Muramoto's article. Sam really "slams" the WTS and it won't get your goal - "planting the seed"
. http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/twins.htm
I may suggest you state something like this in your Email back as well. Remember keep it simple and on one subject.
Hi _____
Just like you I also have heard and read (June 15, 2000 WT, QFR pp.29-31) that Witnesses are not to knowingly transfuse white blood cells into their bodies because white blood cells are considered a main blood component and thus, blood. I even remember the Elders explaining this to me. But I also heard something about this that was a little different.
So, another Witness friend of mind suggested I should search some of the medical journals. This allowed me to locate the actual articles in the Journal of Archives of Internal Medicine at my local medical library. I found two articles in the 1997 and 1998 in this journal by Dr. Kerridge and Dr. Muramoto.
The articles clearly showed that the Watchtower will allow Witnesses to use their free consciences in deciding whether white blood cells are to be transfused if the procedure is called a "peripheral blood stem cell autographing procedure" and not a white blood cell transfusion. In this procedure, for leukemia patients, white blood cells are taken out and separated from the body via a machine when chemotherapy takes place and then stored for later. Then, the white blood cells are transfused/deposited back into the body at a later time just like a regular transfusion to help fight against disease and the drugs.
Dr. Kerridge worked with the Hospital Liason Committee and the patient to ensure the procedure met the Watchtower's guidelines. Kerridge reported the procedure protocol in a recognized journal with the permission of the family to alert other doctors of the apparent change in the WTS policy.
Interesting stuff. I have attached a copy of Dr. Kerridge's article for you to look over to see for yourself. They are in a jpg format.
Take care,
Uncle Onion
p.s. - the offical articles titles are:
"Clinical and Ethical Issues in the Treatment of a Jehovah's Witness With Acute Myeloblastic Leukemia", Dr. Ian Kerridge et al., August 25, 1997 edition, Archives of Internal Medicine, Volume 157, pages 1753-1757
and
"Medical Ethics in the Treatment of Jehovah's Witnesses", Dr. Osamu Muramoto, May 25, 1998 edition Archives of Internal Medicine, Volume 158, Editor's Correspondence, pages 1155-1156
Hope it helps sir
hawk
hawkaw

Lisa stated:
My problem is that I can't even focus on this $h!t long enough to formulate a reasonable argument with my parents. Maybe I'll start a thread about that and look for you all's advice.
Oh how true. Those dark coloured glasses are tough to take off. Especially when they think you are "against" them.
To argue the blood doctrine might take a person about a good 4 or 5 months of hard study and research before you can even try. And then you have to put up with that stupid theocratic war strategy lying and those ad hominem attacks.
Just getting past the bible bu!! $h!t was tough enough for me. Then you try to go into AJWRB and boy oh boy it is a tough read for folks who don't know a red blood cell from a sprinkle donut. Just trying to prepare my essay on monchorionic gestation and how it relates to blood transfers was tough Lisa. I still don't know if I got it down simple enough format or not. Right now I have Lee Elder and his good people looking over it.
I guess I do have a letter and package I can share with you. I will Email if you want with a package and I will get something for you to study.
hawk

Answer from a JW friend about blood

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