Is it the only True religion?

by cupcakekourtney88 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • JonathanH
    JonathanH

    My apologies won't leave for thinking you were a witness. I must have subliminally picked that up from your name, and your attempt at defending the garden of eden story as sensical.

    A united world of any peaceful belief system would make the world a great place, especially if you use the "no true scottsman" fallacy. It's not the christians that do bad things, it's the people pretending to be christians. True christians don't make the world a bad place. If you asked a muslim, or a hindu or a jew you would get the same answer. It's not muslims that are making the middle east chaotic. It's people pretending to be muslims. True muslims are peace loving, and selfless. Works with political ideoligies too. True communism would make the world a great place, and if a communist regime does poorly, it's not true communism. That's the thing about idealism, any ideal will work as long as it's ideal.

    "I reject your model because it precludes free will. If there is no free will then all is fore-ordained and pointless; not to mention unscriptural."

    And that's where reason breaks down. You reject my model because you don't like the conclusion. Dismissing a logical model that demonstrates a flaw with a belief system on the grounds that it doesn't agree with he belief system is to put the cart before the horse, to make a postulate an axiom and then use it to gauge any proofs or disproofs for that postulate is circular. My brother was the same way. He couldn't find a logical or reasonable way to make the bible make sense, to justify genocide, to reconcile pre-meditated mass murder with the ideal being of love, of fairy tales of giant boats and floods, but didn't want to live in a world where there was no omnipotent being that embodied love. And so he continued to believe the witnesses. Dealing with the conclusion wasn't something he could do.

    You said scientists are people too, and look for proofs of their pet theories. This is known as confirmation bias, something the scientific method was developed to correct for. Confirmation bias is when you pay special attention to things that confirm what you believe, but ignore or toss out things that contradict what you believe. Such as rejecting a model, not because you can show how it's wrong, but because it doesn't agree with what you believe already.

    Also, it's not that I believe that there are infinite universes, what I was talking about in Briane Greene's book was IF the universe was infinite, which was merely for illustrative purposes. For the purposes of the theology I was discussing an infinite number of universes is unneccessary because infinite time is required for what god proposes to do.

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    My apologies won't leave for thinking you were a witness.

    Technically, I am. I have been "marked", but am still considered a member of the congregation. I really couldn't care less whether I'm part of their 7M-person clique or not. Each must bear his own load.

    "no true scottsman" fallacy

    "No true Christian would make the world a worse place" is not a fallacy, though. When you make the world a worse place, you are not following Christ, ergo you are not Christian. Being a violent, self-righteous Christian would be akin to saying "Sure, I go around randomly killing innocent people, but I'm no murderer."

    True muslims are peace loving

    You (and other Muslim defenders) really need to read the Qur'an. I have; and I reject that statement because the Qur'an is very clear that if you aren't killing infidels you are no Muslim.

    You reject my model because you don't like the conclusion.

    I already told you why I reject your model and yet you've set up a paper tiger. I reject your model because it's not applicable, it's illogical, and it's patently false.

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    WL: You (and other Muslim defenders) really need to read the Qur'an. I have; and I reject that statement because the Qur'an is very clear that if you aren't killing infidels you are no Muslim.

    Do you think it's possible, being raised in a Christian environment as opposed to a Muslim environment, that you offer the OT the benefit of a doubt and a whitewashed perspective, but do not afford Muslims and the Koran the same opportunity?

    One out of numerous examples:

    Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

    On the other hand, if you excuse verses like the one above to explain Christianity, why not offer the same opportunity to Muslims and their understanding of the Koran?

  • JonathanH
    JonathanH

    My model is the exact opposite of illogical. It is firmly grounded in logic. If it's illogical, then you can show where the logic breaks down, if it's false then you can point to where it's false. That's the beauty of reason and logic.

    Cheezit, has already adressed your view of muslims. Also, I am not a muslim defender, I am an atheist. I think alot of religions are inherently violent despicable things, because they are traditions from a far less civil time. Holy books are just sock puppets to justify actions. Good people will find good scriptures, and bad people will find one to justify their actions as well. Leading up to, during, and even after the civil war the bible was used to both justify and condemn slavery. Give people a large enough tome and they will find what they want in it. Confirmation bias at work.

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