Question of the Day: Why are so very few of Jesus ACTUAL WORDS...

by Terry 88 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Greetings, dear Terry - peace to you and thank you for another "thought-provoking" thread. Since dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!) answered in the same manner that I initially intended to, I won't be redundant. I would, however, like to respond to your latest comments, if I may. Thank you!

    what about this consideration: Competing VERSIONS of the Jesus message have split opinion and interpretation into shards like a dropped and broken mirror. Which piece reflects something worthy of the Lord's intentions?

    What many MISS is that this division is the EXACT INTENTION of the Bible: to confound and confuse. It was compiled by the "scribes and Pharisees", not by God or Christ... to do exactly what it does. What folks also miss is WHO it was compiled FOR: those who need to "see it in writing" - those who walk by SIGHT... and NOT those who are led by the Holy Spirit - those who walk by FAITH.

    Are we all doomed to our personal preferences like what color lipstick or style of shoe we wear? Is religion, then, condemned to the lastest "fashions"?

    Ummmmm... yes. Absolutely. That's why it's the divisive, confusing entity that it is. It's RESULTS show this, do they not?

    Where is the unity of fellowship? Everybody brings contrary ideas to the table.

    Which is why there IS NO unity of fellowship, except among sects, which themselves are divided. As a result, God... and CHRIST... is divided AMONG them.

    What has split Christianity apart is that every fellowship ends up with the same AUTHORITY issues. Who gets to tell you what is right and wrong.

    Well, since Christ IS recorded to have said (contrary to Paul ?) that we are to have no leader, that One is our leader... him... that question has been answered. That folks don't KNOW the answer... because they don't WANT to know... because they WANT to be (mis)led... is on them. They are only receiving what they WANT.

    You can't stay in a fellowship very long without having to agree/disagree and mark yourself as IN/OUT.

    While that's not entirely true, it is majorily true, yes.

    Why is Christianity absolutely obsessed with the unprovable aspects of divinity and apocalypse?

    Because they miss the point of what... or rather WHOM... they SHOULD be concerned about. They strain out gnats... while gulping down camels.

    Why is the bible worshipped as being a source of absolute truth?

    Because those that so worship do not know the Truth. At all. They totally miss the point of my Lord's words:

    "You search the scriptures because you think that by means of THEM you will have everlasting life; and these are the one that bear witness... to ME. Yet, YOU DO NOT WANT TO COME... TO ME..."

    They miss the point that even the BIBLE says that my Lord is God's Word, not it... that NOWHERE does it state that it is God's Word... and because they place the words of others, particularly Paul (?) over the words of my Lord. "PAUL" is a great many more's leader than Christ is. Why don't they see this? Because... they really are blind. Really.

    The "Holy Spirit" was operating in Jonestown according to survivors. At least they "thought" so.

    They thought so because a false christ told them so. Had they checked for themselves... indeed, had they even bothered to ASK... they would have learned differently.

    Neither God, Christ, or the Bible is to blame for man's ignorance. It is man who is to blame: the blind guides that are the "scribes and Pharisees"... and the blind sheep who follow them. Why? Because both are CHOOSING blindness... rather than sight. If a man chooses to be blind he has no one to blame for his lack of sight than himself. It is like the man who has his hands over his eyes: although someone may tell him, "Hey, you don't need to cover your eyes!" and so he removes his hands... he still refuses to OPEN HIS EYES. His choice.

    I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • designs
    designs

    tec,

    The NT Holy Spirit, we must conclude then, teaches that lovely conundrum- I love you and I will wipe out human civilization.....

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Good thread, Terry. I am loving this exchange.

    Shelby brings some good points to the discussion. My sole contention is that without the Bible, where would we learn about God and Jesus?

    At any rate, this is in line with the discussion I had with my wife concerning truth. She stated that truth is there but men obfuscated it to the point to where they no longer know what truth is. I agreed, stating that perhaps that is what religions in general are. Man made inventions that, while intentionally they try to bring truth into focus, really obfuscate it to the point to where no one really knows what truth really is.

    Don't think she was expected that kind of response.

  • tec
    tec
    The NT Holy Spirit, we must conclude then, teaches that lovely conundrum- I love you and I will wipe out human civilization.....

    It doesn't teach that, but men do. Because much of the time men (yeah, women too) see what they want to see.

    Gary - Good job! If your wife could look at her own religion in the same way that she looks at other religions, well, she probably wouldn't be in one at all anymore.

    Okay, Tammy, what about this consideration: Competing VERSIONS of the Jesus message have split opinion and interpretation into shards like a dropped and broken mirror. Which piece reflects something worthy of the Lord's intentions?

    Not sure what you're asking. Which version of Christianity reflects something worthy? I think you must know by now that I would say none... if we're speaking solely about denominations and groups and such.

    If we're speaking about 'fruits', then I would say that those who are inspired to love, to give, to forgive, to care for others, to be slow to anger, to show compassion and mercy, to do good even to those who do bad to you, etc, etc, etc... Unity, brotherhood, faith... you will know them by the love they have among them.

    In other words, those that reflect Christ and love.

    Where is the unity of fellowship? Everybody brings contrary ideas to the table.

    Everyone brings to the table what is inside of them. If love, then love. If faith, then faith. If fear, then fear, and if anger and judgment, then anger and judgment.

    I can answer the rest, but I would be saying the same things as Shelby has said. (peace to you as well) I would just like to repeat, that for one who follows Christ; for one who has unity with Christ... HE is their teacher. We should look to Him, first and foremost.

    Tammy

  • Terry
    Terry

    Shelby brings some good points to the discussion. My sole contention is that without the Bible, where would we learn about God and Jesus?

    We have to be careful or we end up with an overlapping generations style analysis! :)

    We are two thousand years down the pike from Jesus. Everything, as you say, that we think we know comes from the Bible and from the distortions

    of our preachers, teachers, commentaries, Seminaries.

    However, when we try to unhitch our wagon (so to speak) from that lost Wagon Train we are left in the middle of hostile wilderness.

    We are surrounded by religions! Relgions based on_____________fill in the blank, but, taking deadly aim at getting you and me to agree or else.

    There is SOMETHING about the fragility of humanity which necessitates insisting there is SOMEBODY HIGHER IN CHARGE and at the same time

    insisting that IT CAN BE KNOWN but OPERATES with AUTHORITY through .....X (whoever is speaking to you pointing that finger at your nose.)

    I would submit to you that NOBODY KNOWS a damn thing because there is NOTHING TO KNOW!

    Bible, Koran, Torah, Rig Vedas, Buddah, etc. ARE ALL human concoctions totally unprovable and dangerous to rational minds.

    The fact that people SEEK COMFORT and with placebo efficiency OBTAIN COMFORT is no argument for validity.

    The ACTUAL WORDS of Jesus link us DIRECTLY with his Mind. The LOSS of Jesus' actual words is stark evidence

    we are in the hands of OTHER MINDS with other agendas.

    The alternative?

    Two main ones:

    1.Think for yourself

    or

    2.Pretend God is talking directly TO YOU.

  • designs
    designs

    tec-

    In both the Gospels and Revelation the NT Jesus promises to come back and destroy human civilization...remember his quantifying creedo 'you must be born again' as the survivors or the saved. Revelation is particularly fun, he promises to wipe us out not once but twice. Lovely guy.

    Left Hand Right Hand, remember.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Tammy exhorts:

    Where is the unity of fellowship? Everybody brings contrary ideas to the table.

    Everyone brings to the table what is inside of them. If love, then love. If faith, then faith. If fear, then fear, and if anger and judgment, then anger and judgment.

    I know you love LOVE, Tammy. You're a hunka hunka burning LOVE!

    But, LOVE is the strongest possible reaction we have to our own particulars: taste, ideas, prejudices, information (true or not), culture and viewpoint.

    LOVE proceeds FROM...........and does not ORIGINATE.

    Meaning what?

    Once we are shaped by the people and ideas we come from (in the worst case: distorted and abused by...you could say....or misinformed by) our attachment to those influences triggers emotions. The strongest of these emotions is LOVE.

    Warped people LOVE drugs, perversions and violence. Not all LOVE is created equal!

    Radicalized Muslims LOVE their idea of God and HATE (with equal passion) the GREAT SATAN (i.e. Tammy and her fellow citizens!)

    Evangelical radicalized Christians LOVE human life and are willing to shoot abortion doctors to preserve it.

    See what I mean?

    LOVE doesn't fall out of the sky like a pure crystal snowflake. It is baked inside our brain with tricky ingredients at high heat!

    We must be careful lest we are burned by it.

  • tec
    tec
    Warped people LOVE drugs, perversions and violence. Not all LOVE is created equal!

    This is true. (although I might not say warped people, but rather hurt or lost people)

    When I speak of love, I am speaking of love for all. Knowing that you're no better than anyone else. Wanting everyone to know peace and love, regardless of what they want for you, or even how they have treated you. Not wishing ill on anyone. (not so easy to do when I'm angry with someone, but easier once I let that anger pass, which I have come to learn that it always does pass)

    Knowing that Christ loved God showed me that I had been looking at God wrong. (with fear)

    Knowing that God loves us, helps me to also love the people in this world... regardless of whether I agree with them, enjoy the same things they do, or even like them.

    You spoke once about love coming from shared values. I thought a lot about that, and I never liked it, because it seems so cold and impersonal. You might be right on that in an abstract way, though. Because my love for others does not come from shared values with them. I do not have to be like-minded with a person, with much in common, in order to love them and hope for the best for them, or to be kind to them or show compassion. But Christ taught and showed love to all, including those who made themselves his enemies. So because I love him, then I love all others as He did and taught us to do, as well. So in an abstract way, perhaps my love for others does come from a shared value that Christ taught, because I love Him.

    Tammy

    (I'm still hunka hunka burning love, though )

  • Terry
    Terry

    Tammy, I'd love have you read the book: SUNFLOWER

    The Sunflower is a book on the Holocaust by Simon Wiesenthal re-tracing his steps to a personal question of forgiveness. The book recounts Wiesenthal's experience in the Lembergconcentration camp and discusses the moral ethics of the matter. The title comes from Wiesenthal's observation of a German military cemetery, seeing a sunflower on each grave, and fearing his own placement in an un-marked, mass grave. The book's second half is a symposium of answers from various people, including Holocaust survivors and former Nazis. The book was originally published in France.

  • tec
    tec

    I'll add it to my list :)

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