by lifeisgood 79 Replies latest jw friends
Religion ( or religious expression if you prefer) has come down the ages, hand-in-hand with cilvilization to the point that one can't decide which beget what.
The oldest ruins of civilizations we find, always contain some type of religious artificats or carvings or whatnot's.
Dear Life is Good - I offer my humble apologies for misunderstanding and misinterpreting your reasons for the conclusions you found. You leave me totally puzzled and I wished I did have answers - good ones - to offer. But at the moment I don't.
The only description of this that you could have is the Old Testament.
Yes, which is why I quoted from it. But it is their (Jewish) history and their book. Most prophets sent to try and correct people and explain what they were doing that God did not want, were not well received.
Since we can see this enacted even today (perhaps not with prophets, but with anyone who tries to say that others are doing something wrong), it makes sense - to me.
The OT also gives a reason that the nations were being driven out, and it wasn't because the land was promised to the Israelites. It was because of the despicable things that those nations were doing first. The land wasn't 'given' to the Israelites before then. I can draw on other sources to show that these nations committed such things as human/child sacrifice.
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure that the Israelites understood what the promised land was. Not since Christ came and explained that the 'kingdom' is within us.
The vast majority of humans before Jesus had no knowledge of the Bible or of Jehovah, and the vast majority were not approached by "propets and servants" and told that they needed to change.
All of the humans before Jesus (and many afterward for a long time also) had no knowledge of the bible :)
But when I said that I think there was no reason it wasn't the same for them (those outside of Israel)... I meant that there us no reason that they were not willing to listen also, same as the Israelites. I do think that many of them had some similar knowledge about a 'high god'. that this all originated in the same place. But as each went their own way, beliefs and religions splintered off and changed (or were forgotten) as well. Then the new beliefs sometimes got carried into other cultures, mixing with the older beliefs, and so on and so on.
Of course, one can see from different religious texts that certain truths were carried among them all... love neighbor, do not repay evil with evil... but that these weren't necessarily followed.
Tammy
tec,
I like how you judge me and tell me that I was not really a Christain.
"Reading the bible constantly, even memorizing every word cover to cover; being a lay preacher, etc... none of these make a person a Christian. I think I might say that you did not know Christ BECAUSE you became a JW. It isn't a judgment. I believed them too. Why? Because I did not know Christ. Had I known Him, I would not have believed the falsehoods and half-truths being told in his name, or about him. I would have known that theirs was a stranger's voice, and not to listen to it."
Please do not talk to me anymore.
Well stated. Pretty well sums it up for the place I have landed also.
What I find interesting is that not only has the Christian religion proven short, so has the Christian culture in so many ways. I am far more attracted to Eastern culture in many ways, though it's reliance on so much religiosity and superstition is also unpalatable to me.
Jeff
I apologize if I made you feel judged. I thought you showed a great deal of love in a place that has little of it - namely with the sister who needed help. But we both know that the WTS is false. Neither one of us were listening to Christ when we decided to give our allegiance to the WTS, and let them determine for us who Christ is. We were both listening to men. Unless you were listening to Christ, but I don't understand how that can be, when you believe he is just a myth?
Regardless, I apologize for offending you. I won't post on your thread any more after this, as you request.
Tammy
The OT also gives a reason that the nations were being driven out, and it wasn't because the land was promised to the Israelites.
Oh, come on!
There are dozens of Bible passages that show God telling the Jews to go kill off other nations to take the land.
It was because of the despicable things that those nations were doing first.
And killing off millions of people to steal the land is NOT DESPICABLE? OMG, what sort of twisted mind could make such an idiot statement and believe it?
The land wasn't 'given' to the Israelites before then. I can draw on other sources to show that these nations committed such things as human/child sacrifice.
Yep. Just like the Israelites did when they killed off all the people. Or the laws that commanded the Jews to kill children who sassed a parent or a young wife to be stoned if her hymen was not intact on the wedding night, or the killing of a man for having intercourse with a woman while at the same time his God was approving of his raping, pillaging, and murder of old men and old women in villages along the route to the promised land.
WOW.
Jeff
I know all of those things, Jeff. And you know how I feel about them. Just because its in the book, doesn't mean it is true. You know I believe that. You also left this part out of what I said:
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure that the Israelites understood what the promised land was. Not since Christ came and explained that the 'kingdom' is within us.
I don't believe God ordered the killing, murdering, raping, pillaging, etc, etc, of anyone. Because Christ, the one I look toward, never did. But I don't know what living in those times was like (other than a fight for survival with warring tribes on every side, including the Israelites) I think the promised land was the kingdom Christ spoke of, but the people didn't understand that - lost in translation, so to speak. So perhaps they applied 'promised land' to what is here now, the same as some Christians think that America is God's country, and the government is ushering in the kingdom. The same as some Zionists and Muslims fight over the holy land now, thinking they need to possess the land before the kingdom or whatever is ushered in.
Tammy
Life is good,
I agree with your posts for the most part and came to many of the same conclusions. It is really the only conclusion one can come to if you use a logical approach and remove myth from reality.
Note to Tammy,
I've met people from all different religioins and faiths and I have to say the most honest, enlightened, compassionate person I ever met grew up with no religion. I think it is great that you can draw on someone you see as an example, but I doubt it gives you an edge over anyone else. Since you never met the person written about in the Bible, it seems likely that you are worshiping a figment of your imagination. I don't think there is any historical proof that he existed. I personally think he did, but doubt that he is anything like the person you imagine.
Marking...
Excellent thread!!
