The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament. (page 4)

designs

Churches = throat slitters. Historically that's how the opposition was dealt with, lovely group the Christians....

PSacramento

Churches = throat slitters. Historically that's how the opposition was dealt with, lovely group the Christians....

Maybe they should have stuck to stoning, LOL !

there is nothing wrong with a religion selecting texts that serves it's own needs. Why would it select texts that served the needs of those who opposed them or perscuted them or who were trying to destroy them?

Sorry to disagree. No one has a right to mislead or hide the truth. If those who oppose or persecute a religion are RIGHT, and are telling the TRUTH, then everything is wrong in a religion selecting texts that serve its own needs.

This "selecting texts that serve its own needs" is the same as "doing whatever it takes to save the organization". Now, saving an organization is necessary only for those who are in it. Telling the truth should be way more important. I believe we are all participating in a forum where this idea of telling the truth, as opposed to saving an organization, makes a lot, a lot and a whole more lot of sense.

As a former Catholic, I am not much versed in this kind of controversies. I do know that truth needs to be told.

Of course I'm against religious persecution. I'm not in favor, however, of leaving out the texts that say that your "opposers" are telling the truth. "Oppose" in this context sounds to me like a prejudiced term to say "disagree with me", but giving it an undertone of unreasonableness and maybe evil.

Now, persecution is a slippery term, prone to abuse. I am sure that slitting the throat of a fellow human being ONLY because he holds, for example, that there is no such a thing as the trinity, is absolutely wrong. Now, for example, telling this same fellow human being that he must not let his children bleed to death is no persecution.

PSacramento

Dgp,

Every religion sticks to what they prefer to justify their doctrines, look at the JW's, then even went as far as translating the bible their way , adding and subtracting at their whim.

And it is right to be critical of such things and right to point out the differences and especially the errors when they are found.

ANd agian, this has been going one for centuries and probably will continue to go on since I don't think that ANYONE will ever settle on ONE bible and ONE translation, nor should their be any attempt to do so.

The core message is the same and remains that same for the majority of Christians, even reading the oldest works for the chruch fathers and those that opposed them shows us that these debates we have now are nothing new.

You make the choice of which path to follow based on all the available info you have and the rest lies on your shoulders and YOU will have to answer for your choices.

dgp

I agree, PSacramento. Every religion sticks to its doctrines. Every religion should also face the hard facts. Hiding texts and selecting others is not the way to do that.

PSacramento

I agree, PSacramento. Every religion sticks to its doctrines. Every religion should also face the hard facts. Hiding texts and selecting others is not the way to do that.

Quite correct and the fact that we are discussing this and that these discussion have been going on for ages shows that you can't hide it at all.

I am not a fan of the Gnostics, not because I have issues with what they have as ideal, most of the time they are ok, but that they try to pass off Christ as LESS than he was and his teachings in ways that are not consistent to testimony from his disciples.

Now, it MAY turn out that they were right all along, but base don what we know NOW, it doesn't seem that way.

Of course this is my opinion from what I have read to date.

ProdigalSon

There are many different types of gnostics, good and bad, and they don't always agree. But they do understand that they are spirits temporarily inhabiting human bodies and the interconnectedness of us all. They also know that you will never find the "truth" in a book, it has to come through experience. The human mind has no bounds when in a properly meditative state.

PSacramento

There are many different types of gnostics, good and bad, and they don't always agree. But they do understand that they are spirits temporarily inhabiting human bodies and the interconnectedness of us all. They also know that you will never find the "truth" in a book, it has to come through experience. The human mind has no bounds when in a properly meditative state.

And in that regard they are correct:

Our bodies house our immortal spirit, which returns to God on the death of he mortal body.

The truth is made clear in Christ and through Christ via the Holy Spirit, not some book, any book.

The bounds of the human mind are limited by our fallen state, our spirit knows NO such state and as such, our spirit is boundless.

tec

Agreed. Truth is not found in a book. But through Christ, in spirit.

Tammy

edited to add: truths can also be discovered through experience. I'm just going by the movie, but didn't Ghandi get his revelation of the Hindu caste system being unjust, because he came to America and got treated badly as a black person? That experience taught him that something he previously believed and accepted was wrong.

PSacramento

God is revealed to us in the bible, yes, in a progressive manner cumulating in the NT.

God is revealed to Us in his Living Word, Christ the son of God.

God is revealed to us in the universe we live, his divine act of love.

To focus on only ONE of those is missing all that God has given us so that we may know him.

The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament.

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