The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament.

by whereami 46 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • JuanMiguel
    JuanMiguel

    Wobble,

    I never claim to be perfect. I can make mistakes. I obviously did when I didn't make this as clear as I should have made it now upon reading my comment.

    My reference to how accurate the extant manuscripts merely refer to what we find written at present, and what empirical evidence exists between both available copies and quotes from outside witness that show such agreement. And the "source" refers to the various traditions and reports that is evident according to current textual criticism (i.e., narratives based on the way a certain group or church of believers may have remembered them as opposed to the way the story was kept by a different individual or group).

    I also don't mean to give the impression that I totally agree with current historical-critical methods. But I think such conclusions may hold more weight for the critical or academic mind than my personal convictions, so I usually play "devil's advocate" based on what is generally considered the best evidence to date by those who are a bit more studied and versed than I am.

    True, we don't have the originals, but we also don't have anything emprically speaking that can present us with an unquestionable alternative. Either way, this should not be contrued as claiming belief in Jesus as the Messiah or otherwise. I am just pointing out that there isn't another text that you can check what we have against it.

    But I do take issue with your obvious mistake, and not mine, on one point. I agreed with you that the Bible has no claim to relative authority outside of the communities that created it. I stated that on behalf of the Jewish testament and the Christian one. And I personally do not believe that the Bible is the key to knowing all that is on the mind of the Deity it makes claim to. Any deity who's intellect humans could have the key to is no deity in my book.

    And just because the gospel texts are unchanged does not mean I have to believe in them. They can be as accurate as your fingerprint is to your identity and still would only matter to me if I wanted them to matter. They don't have to be false for me to reject them. God doesn't have to be false for me not to believe in God. We could have established fact in God's existence, but I don't have to give a hoot to God if I don't care to.

    How accurate or how much evidence to support something as fact or discredit it does not mean I follow through anymore than medical science and all its reports can make a smoker who wants to keep smoking stop smoking. Are you saying you would believe the Bible, all of it, if there was proof to do so?

    Personally I don't have to pretend that white wedding cake is false or doesn't exist for me to reject it. I hate it, it's yucky!

    I personally don't follow gods or believe in books because they are real or are fakes. I live how I want to, and I do what I want, and white wedding cake be damned (and Watchtower reasoning too).

    I'm Juan Miguel, and I ain't scared of no ghosts!

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    None of Bart's points are actually new and have been addressed over the years before Bart was in born.

    I'm reading "Misquoting Jesus" right now for the first time and it's new to me. The book has plentiful citations which apparently (I haven't checked all his sources yet, of course) support his points well. I'm not sure whether it is relevant if his ideas are "new light" or older theories repackaged for a modern audience. Why does it matter as long as his points have support?

    I am only about halfway through the book right now but I haven't seen him try to assert any personal agenda yet. Maybe he does so later or in the book in the OP.

  • whereami
    whereami

    For anyone that would like to listen to Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" or "God's Problem", you can listen to both books for free here:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/203660/1/Anyone-interested-in-free-Bart-Ehrmans-Miquoting-Jesus-Gods-Problem-audio-books-Great-books

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Forgot about that thread, whereami. I'll check it out.

  • Isidore
    Isidore

    Ehrman couldn't talk his way out of a paper bag "educated" himself into confusion.

    http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2009/04/son-of-duck.html

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    I'm reading "Misquoting Jesus" right now for the first time and it's new to me. The book has plentiful citations which apparently (I haven't checked all his sources yet, of course) support his points well. I'm not sure whether it is relevant if his ideas are "new light" or older theories repackaged for a modern audience. Why does it matter as long as his points have support?
    I am only about halfway through the book right now but I haven't seen him try to assert any personal agenda yet. Maybe he does so later or in the book in the OP.

    After you read that, there are a few books to choose from he answer Bart's issues and none of them are new.

    Whenever we read someone's opinion on something, it's good to get the couter-argument.

  • whereami
    whereami
    Ehrman couldn't talk his way out of a paper bag "educated" himself into confusion.

    http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2009/04/son-of-duck.html

    Your're not serious are you? You do realize what was going on there, wright?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Ehrman couldn't talk his way out of a paper bag "educated" himself into confusion.
    http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2009/04/son-of-duck.html

    Can't see the clip...

  • whereami
  • Isidore
    Isidore

    whereami, yes, I am serious. You see one thing, I see another. This clip was a point/counterpoint agrument, and Ehrman, to be charitable, looked like a deer caught in headlights. And this was after he appeared before on Colbert's show and it was more of the same on that as well. Colbert is a self professed Roman Catholic (you did the see the source of the link, right?), so why do you think Ehrman wanted to come on air with him? Ehrman has spent his whole life studying scripture and saw a chance to make points and that's the best he can do, albeit on a political satire show? There are just as many educated men, some from the time of the Apostles, who believe/believed completely differently than what Ehrman and Metzger have concluded.

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