Egibi Banking Tablest - of which The Watchtower has never mentioned - why?

by VM44 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    "So since the business records of this banking house would have been targeted for destruction, they were simply revised."

    This would involve creating new tablets. The work involved would be rewriting the text on new clay tablets and then baking them.

    The amount of work involved would be immense to change 100's or 1,000's of records.

    Wow. Thanks. You know, I hadn't really thought about that. Good point. So I'm wondering if these tablets were exceptional. I mean, if this was a stable family business over the years that was seen as an opportunity to substantiate the reduced Babylonian timeline.

    But there is something we can look into. That is, whether these tablets show contemporary recording over the years which might reflect slight and gradual changes in writing style, versus a very consistent writing style, perhaps that can be dated to a later period. That's the case with the Nabonidus Chronicle, the Cyrus Cylinder and the Babylonian Chronicle, which all sport the very neat style of a smaller script typical of the Persian Period, thus we know from the writing style the documents were "copied" during the Persian Period, not that the Babylonian Chronicle itself even mentions the year it was "copied" (i.e. year 22 of Darius (II)).

    So we can get some further input here. We will know they were all recopied and revised if the writing style belongs to a later period rather than varing over those centuries. So if you can find graphics of some of these tablets we can compare them. Maybe the writing style has already been commented on.

    But as far as the monumental task of recopying all those texts goes, if the Persian government thought it was worth it, they could have easily done it. For instance, how many tablets do you think could be copied by one copyist in a day? 50, 100? If ten copyists were assigned to recopy and change these texts then it wouldn't really take that long. Remember the Persians were in a cold war with Greece and they were desperate to try to cover their ploy of Xerxes faking his own death and claiming to be his own son. So if the Egibi business records were thought to provide convincing background, then the Persian government certainly had the means to recopy these texts. They had already recopied all the critical palace documents as mentioned above, so why not these? Actually, it think it is a matter of budget as well. Question is, could they afford it? Answer is yes. They afforded carving out a new extra rock tomb at Naqshi-Rustam for "Xerxes." Xerxes is buried out of order, but it's out there to fool people.

    However, now that you mention it, this was a minor project compared to what took place during the Seleucid Era with the astronomical texts. After the VAT4956 was created, someone figured out that changing the lunar times could help preserve some of the original astronomical events that had coincidental match-up in the new timeline. So what they did was create thousands of astronomical texts with predicted eclipse events that were timed to the new distorted eclipse times! Thus they created a pool of documents that seemed to confirm the consistent new times. That must have been a major undertaking; certainly more challenging than copying and redating some business transaction records for this bank. Remember, the Persians are trying to snow job the Greeks, so the more ancient texts reflecting the revised timeline they have that look legit, the more likely they would be believed. If that only meant recopying a few thousand business documents, then that was well worth it. So I would be curious to see by comparison if these are all contemporary or copies. In fact, apparently some are duplicates so clearly there was some recopying.

    I'll do a preliminary Google search of these tablets to see what is said. But if you come up with anything specific about them, I'd appreciate it. But also remember, just as you think this project of recopying this many texts is impractical, so would the Greeks. Therefore, that alone would make it worth it. If they thought no one would bother recopying all these texts just to fool them then that alone made it quite worth doing just that.

    Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

    LS

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58


    RESEARCH: Here's an interesting quote:

    The Egibi Tablets.

    Table-case G in the Babylonian and Assyrian Room of the British Museum, contains a most important and valuable series of clay tablets, dating from the 1st year of Nebuchadnezzar to the 36th year of Darius. These are largely legal and commercial documents, many of them recording business transactions carried out by the members of the great mercantile house, founded by a wealthy merchant - a Babylonian Rothschild of the 7th Century B.C. - named Egibi or Sin-muballit.

    These tablets include deeds respecting the sale of land, slaves, and houses, marriage contracts and dowries, loans of money and grain, payment of debts, divisions of property, accounts and receipts.

    They are dated according to the year of the reign of the King of Babylon, and thus contribute to the fixing of the Chronology of the period. Transactions are recorded in every one of the 43 years of Nebuchadnezzar, from B.C. 604-562; the 2 years of Evil-merodach, B.C. 561-560 ; the 4 years of Neriglissar, B.C. 559-556; the accession year of Labashi-Marduk, B.C. 556; and the 17 years of Nabonidus, B.C. 555-539.

    Transactions are recorded in each of the 9 years of Cyrus, B.C. 538-530, including the two years in which he was Co-Rex with Darius the Mede, B.C. 538- 537, and the 7 years in which he was sole King, B.C. 536-530. Cyrus being regarded as King of Babylon during the whole of these 9 years, Darius the Mede, whose residence was at Ecbatana, is not mentioned.

    Transactions are recorded in every one of the 8 years of Cambyses, B.C 529-522, in the year of Smerdis, who is sometimes called Barzia (B.C. 521).

    Transactions are recorded in about half the years of Darius Hystaspes, but tablets are wanting for 19 years of this reign. There is, however, a tablet dated as late as the 36th year of his reign, just two years beyond the close of the Old Testament Record and the period now under review.

    The only tablets dated later than this in the Persian period are, one in the 2nd year of Xerxes, and one each in the 6th and the 13th years of Artaxerxes. Also one in the reign of Artaxerxes, but undated.

    Possibly these also refer to Darius Hystaspes, for Xerxes calls himself Darius in the Persepolis Inscription, and Artaxerxes is clearly another name for Darius in the Book of Ezra.

    This confirms the suspicion that, as there are no authentic records of this part of the Persian period, its duration may have been over-estimated by something like 82 years, by the late compilers Diodorus Siculus and Ptolemy."

    From: http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1913_anstey_romance.html

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Based on a preliminary Google search about the tablets, it appears to me there was no need to create fake documents except for the reign of Darius I, whose reign was extended by 30 years. In the meantime, it appears that the texts from the Neo-Babylonian kings that were reduced were simply removed.

    But there are few documents from the 21-year reign of Xerxes, apparently only dated to year 2 of Xerxes. Plus few for the reign of Artaxerxes. Thus the only fabricated documents would have to be for the years beyond year 6 of Darius I. Apparently there are missing 19 years of this reign with one tablet dated to year 36, which is clearly fabricated.

    So it doesn't appear that much more than a few documents for the periods expanded during the Persian Period are represented by the Egibi tablets. But you can't confirm a negative. These texts are presumed to be a complete and untampered collection which reflect the reduced Babylonian timeline, but you can't confirm that the missing years never existed. Of course, they should have.

    Further, it is clear that the Egibi family were Jewish and the Jews were very much involved in assisting in the revision of Persian Period documents. That is, they fully cooperated with covering for Xerxes/Artaxerxes, who was a favorite king of theirs. As noted, they replaced their Ezra/Nehemiah with "Esdras" since Ezra/Nehemiah would require Nehemiah who returned with Zerubbabel from Babylon to live some 143-150 years into the reign of Darius II. So the revised Esdras just deals with when Nehemiah first came to Babylon and was concerned with the beginning of the building work. The part of the history where he is cupbearer to Artaxerxes throughout his entire reign is completely left off. So it is not hard to see what history is being suppressed, simply by comparing apocryphal "Esdras" with the canonical Ezra/Nehemiah and Josephus.

    The idea that all these tablets had to be revised and copied to reflect the new timeline is now clearly not necessary. The rulership years are circumstantially being dated by the available texts along with the missing years of certain kings, thus they represent an incomplete collection of the business tablets.

    It is now interesting in this context, that we consider the VAT4956 and the SK400 which are counter-conspiratorial texts. That is, "diaries" that were created to help hide references to the original chronology. We can see why this seemed an important if not desperate attempt since the revised or circumstantially altered records was such a comprehensive undertaking. These documents were being destroyed and lost forever. The best place to hide something is in plain sight is the purpose of the diaries. They superficially are documents that support the revised timeline except for a few "errors" which go past without much attention until you realize they are too specific to have been unintentional. Once you consider an intentional inclusion to another year, then you realize you have a confirmation of the original timeline. The SK400 dates year 7 of Nebuchadnezzar II to 541 BCE and the VAT4956 dates year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar to 511 BCE. That is the same dating for the rule of Nebuchadnezzar. The Bible dates the 1st of Cyrus to 455 BCE following a 70-year exile of the last deportees, year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar. That means year 23 falls in 525 BCE, year 7 falls in 541 BCE and year 37 falls in 511 BCE. So is it really a mystery why the "errors" in the VAT4956 match 511 BCE? The double-dating, of course, proves the timeline was revised. To ignore this is simply incompetence at this point.

    The Egibi tablets might have been an issue had the VAT4956 and SK400 not contained the double-dating to the original years of Neb2. Once we see this, then we know the collection was altered by getting rid of tablets dated to the reduced years of the NB Period. A few fabricated documents seems all there are for the expanded reign of Darius I, with no tablets for the parallel 21-year rule of Xerxes with Artaxerxes.

    Even so, the texts are certainly fascinating and shows the Jews were very much into banking even back then and has remained a family tradition even now. Some have thought the Egibi family were similar to the modern Rothchilds.

    LS

  • VM44
    VM44

    I just discovered that the old Aid to Bible Understanding book mentions Egibi in the article on Banks.

  • Malachi Elijah
    Malachi Elijah

    While in school as a JW during 1968-1974 the secular world hated religion enough to teach that the whole world was Catholic teaching that Earth was flat. This lie accrediting Columbus as the only pure-sighted man to know it was round refused to expose the fact that Columbus took 24,000 Arabic miles and claimed them Italian miles to place China and India where America is. He was refused by a wise smart Catholic Rome that knew he was a quack not by saying Earth is round but by saying it was only (24,000 italian miles) 18,000 miles. This agenda (that church thinks earth is flat) was an approved lie taught in all USA American schools until 500-year celebration honor to worship Columbus came out in 1992 exposing him as a rapist, as a slave-driver, as a self-Christ seeking gold for the Church (Spain if not Rome), and that all this crap is HIM not religion, not Catholic religion. The deaths of Mexico of Aztec and Maya by the Church are no different than the American deaths in USA by capitalism for British dollar (having no state religion since 1763). How odd that the Catholic rapist is set free to kill the JW who was with him.

  • Malachi Elijah
    Malachi Elijah

    Here are questions, did Nebuchadnezzar rule 43 years including 7 insane ones, or plus 7 insane ones? Did Evil-Merodach rule 2 years or 18 years? Did Nabonidus and his son Belshazzar rule the same 17 years, or 17 +17? It is fact that 2 years Darius the Mede (539-538bc) was and is confused as 2 years Persian Darius I the Great (522-520bc). That there is alone 18 years (538-520bc). Also lunar dates are 19-year, and eclipse dates 18-year.

    The fact is known that Adventist and many advent awakening of Jesus in the 1800s (present in ALL these churches) had used the false KJV at Acts 13:20 saying forefathers until 450 years of judges, when it is correctly forefathers for 450 years until judges (350 of). This is why the year 6000 in 1844 and 1874 etc. The WT corrected 1874 to 1975. Didn't bother until it could be used to bring growth.

    More facts, of two ancient historians having 20th year Artaxerxes as 455bc (used by Ussher too) whom all others claim is 445bc, if Artaxerxes were the ONLY Persian king from 560-420bc to use Persian 365-day calendar, then the match of Persian dates with Babylonian lunar are 9 years before the match of Egyptian dates with Jewish lunar. (9x 365 minus 5 days) This places Esther 475bc (474bc February) and following death of Xerxes as the 9 years before 465bc secular. If this is so for him, used by renown scholars who are merely outnumbered by other ancients, where can you find fault that the whole Bible-point is that men are liars just as much outside the WT as inside.

    God jehovah proves true. Resurrecting everyone would do that, and those raised would be damning YOU just as Sheba would be (alive and personally) damning to their face the (living raised up) Jews who killed Jesus. It is to your shame if WT is wrong and you do get resurrected to be damned by all these ancients who come back to life. Millions have read of Judas to curse him when they all wake up with him. Millions all read Moses saying Joseph's brothers abused him; Moses was not DFd for slander, he was not hushed, and they will come back facing millions who say so you brutalized your brother Jo. Popes will come back to life being cursed by all Catholics who got crap, not heaven. Catholic Popes will be cursed by Catholics who lived 600 years after them and remark everytime what crap they got as Catholics for a 1500 year old church not truth. You fail to see that the war is on LIES, and it includes everyone. YOU slam WT as if the worst, but hey where do you turn them to? Jehovah sent his channel his organization Nebuchadnezzar to destroy Jerusalem's watchtower (sadly the temple too). Then he sent his organized channel the Romans to destroy that watchtower again (sadly again the temple with it). Paul says YOU 8 men have not begun ruling before the rest of, the last of, the 144,000 have you! Mordecai said to the bride queen of Jesus that if you do not go to the king in heaven, then Jah will destroy you and save his children another way. Did Esther say you Mordecai brought shame on Jehovah, because Haman is doing this to all us to get back at YOU, and what YOU did Mordecai to shame Jah's name? What about Jacob who was born again by being given the anointed name Israel, and he does not say, NEVER says you two sons have cause ostracism on Jah's name, no he says upon his own name, poor Jacob Israel. This is what Morris says, ostracism is on HIS name because he looks at penis in tight pants and wants to make rules. Jah has been here before, angles looking down from heaven and wanting to get into tight pants so they destroy humans instead by ruling them. Candidate for heaven? buzz, nope cant risk Morris coming down every time he sees a penis to cut it off because a marriage is having sex outside in their yard. What stops Morris from coming down from heaven to have sex with his wife, if he still feels the need to prove he wasnt a homo on earth. What prevents him from coming down to rule by himself without the 144,000 if he already does so now without the communion partakers (as Paul says the rest of us).

    EFFECT: The deliberate Satan and mistakes of those like him are the tools God uses to move selfish humans. The birth of Noah 2970bc was mistaken as Flood 2970bc. The 600 years before 2370bc only go back in 360-day to 2960bc (revision to Greek 2958bc). This 2960bc pivots Noah's year 1656am (Greek 1656 his birth to 2256 Flood), reality 1656 Flood as born again, and Samaritan 1656am Noah's death makes a 1307am Flood used by Spain, France, German-Dutch, and Britain as a year 6000 in 1733 expecting a 30-year Christ in 1763AD. Dutch harbor freezes destroying all ships (being wood) and Dutch give New York to Britian who declares all religion born there will be free. One-man war breaks out 1914 June 27/28, RUssell applies license that day and is approved by Britain July 1 to declare as Christ Ambassador Gentile Times over Sunday Oct 4. He is unaware this is 360-day year 6000 from 4025bc Adam and 2370bc Flood. Egyptian 365-day new year Thoth (since 1514bc) ends 6000 without 1086 leap days in 1973 instead of 1975. That date is April 13 (and this week i found it to be Watergate speech) have not found the significance, but this new year was actually original 7th month (6 months past Pamenot new year 6000). EVERY HOUR can be calculated. YOU think you do it with Egibi dates, but it can be done to everything and you do not do it, you let others do it who have bad motive.

  • Dagney
    Dagney

    I miss Lars. Never was there a more colorful chap.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Holy shit, does Malachi Elijah's gravatar seem appropriate.

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