The Gentile Times Reconsidered

by Spade 382 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Spade
    Spade

    Disproving the date 1914 as a significant year in Bible prophecy is of great importance to some (e.g. Carl O. Jonsson). Along with the meticulous details of Bible and secular chronology, broadening one's horizons when assessing exactly what this date represents when compared against the 6000 years of human history likewise has merit.


    Jehovah's Witnesses assert that Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E. and completely uninhabited for exactly seventy years. This date is critical to their selection of October 1914 for the arrival of Christ in kingly power—2520 years after 607 B.C.E. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that periods of seventy years mentioned in the books of Jeremiah and Daniel refer to the Jewish exile.

    However, the current picture of Neo-Babylonian history, as accepted by the majority of scholars, does not allow for a seventy-year interval between the destruction of Jerusalem (which they place in 587/6 B.C.E.) and the reoccupation of the land of Judah two years after the Persian conquest of Babylon (which both secular historians and Jehovah's Witnesses agree occurred in 539 B.C.E.). Historians also agree on 537 B.C.E. as the year when Cyrus the Great decreed that the Israelites could return to Judea from captivity to rebuild their temple.

    The charter of Cyrus the Great, a baked-clay cylinder, was discovered in 1878 in excavation of the site of Babylon by Assyrian archaeologist, Hormuz Rassam. Inscribed in Akkadian cuneiform containing a detailed account by Cyrus the Great, which described his conquest of Babylon in 539 B.C.E. , and his human treatment of his conquered subjects. Length of this cylinder is 22.86 Centimetre, and it is now kept in the British Museum; it is no exaggeration to say that it is one of the most precious historical records of the world. Cyrus’ cylinder, resonate for Iranians at a very profound level, which has become part of Iran’s cultural and national identity.

    The document also confirms many of the details recorded in Ezra 1:2-4, in which Cyrus the Great decreed that the Israelites could return to Judea from captivity to rebuild the temple in 537 B.C.E.

    While most historians base their date for the destruction of Jerusalem on a line of secular evidence independent from the Bible, Jehovah's Witnesses base theirs on a Biblically-foretold seventy-year period of servitude to Babylon for Judah:

    "The word that occurred to Jeremiah . . . concerning all the people of Judah and concerning all the inhabitants of Jerusalem . . . all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years."—Jeremiah 25:1a, 2, 11.

    Eighteen years after this prophecy occurred to Jeremiah, the priest and copyist Ezra describes the events that followed the destruction of Jerusalem, in the nineteenth year (or eighteenth regnal year) of Nebuchadnezzar:

    "Furthermore, he carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah's word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years."—2 Chronicles 36:20, 21.

    Jehovah's Witnesses unequivocally believe that the correct understanding of these, and related verses, is that the seventy years of servitude followed the destruction of Jerusalem, for it was at this time that Judah became "a devastated place, an object of astonishment."
    In The Gentile Times Reconsidered: Chronology & Christ's Return, Carl O. Jonsson, a former Jehovah's Witness, presents a position strictly favoring secular evidence to support the traditional view of neo-Babylonian chronology. He accuses the Watch Tower Society of deliberately misquoting sources in an effort to bolster their position. When he tries to reconcile the Bible with secular chronology, he reveals his willingness to sacrifice the Biblical timetable in order to achieve his goal of refuting Jehovah's Witnesses. Either select archeological findings are wrong or the Bible is wrong.
    Many point to Ptolemy’s Canon and VAT 4956 as proof that Jerusalem was desolated in 587 B.C.E.

    "Ptolemy’s Canon," assigns a total of 87 years to the Babylonian dynasty beginning with Nabopolassar and ending with Nabonidus at the fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. According to this Canon, the five kings that ruled during this period were Nabopolassar (21 years), Nebuchadnezzar (43 years), Evil-merodach (2 years), Neriglissar (4 years) and Nabonidus (17 years). In line with the number of years thus assigned to each ruler, Jerusalem’s desolation in Nebuchadnezzar’s eighteenth year (nineteenth year if counting from his "accession year") would fall in 586-7 BCE.
    In his book The Mysterious Numbers of the Hebrew Kings, Professor E. R. Thiele writes:

    "Ptolemy’s canon was prepared primarily for astronomical, not historical, purposes. It did not pretend to give a complete list of all the rulers of either Babylon or Persia, nor the exact month or day of the beginning of their reigns, but it was a device which made possible the correct allocation into a broad chronological scheme of certain astronomical data which were then available. Kings whose reigns were less than a year and which did not embrace the New Year's Day were not mentioned."

    The excavated cuneiform tablet VAT 4956 is not an original and it contains numerous gaps. Certain terms found therein cannot even be understood now. Twice in the text the notation hi-bi (meaning “broken off, obliterated”) appears. Thereby the scribe acknowledged that he was working from a defective copy.

    Ancient history as recorded by imperfect men cannot be proven because there are no living informants. Any attempt to establish a chronological scheme of events based strictly on human testimony is tentative. Jehovah’s Witnesses assessment of chronology as recorded by historians does not represent the final word on the matter.
    Does the historical accuracy of the Bible rest upon its author (a supreme being) or strictly on incomplete, imperfect, uninspired worldly documents?
    Opposed to Ptolemy’s Canon and “VAT 4956” stands the unanimous testimony of Jeremiah, Zechariah, Daniel and the writer of 2 Chronicles, that Judah and Jerusalem lay desolate for seventy years. Thousands of ancient manuscripts of these writings contain the identical testimony.


    While some questions can be raised about the meticulous details of ancient history as recorded by men, expanding one's perspective and isolating different events in the 6000 years of human history reveals a perfect historical canon that substantiates the fact that God's Kingdom as a visible earthly organization ended before the foretold Messiah appeared in the first century C.E. and was reinstated after the end of the Age of Enlightenment in 1804.

    When Jesus appeared on the earthly scene in the first century C.E., the corruption of the Pharisees and Sadducees indicated they didn’t have God’s approval and the Jewish nation was thus in a spiritually dismal state.

    When he caught sight of many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the baptism, he said to them: “you offspring of vipers, who has intimated to you to flee from the coming wrath? So then produce fruit that befits repentance; and do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘As a father we have Abraham. Matthew 3:7-9

    And Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom and curing every sort of disease and every sort of infirmity. On seeing the crowds he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples: “Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few. Therefore, beg the Master of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest.” Matthew 9:35-38

    Moving forward a bit, Jesus foretold that his teachings would be subverted: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left.” Surprisingly, when servants brought the evil deed to the man’s attention and asked for permission to collect the weeds, the man said: “No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.” Matthew 13:24-30.

    Christianity Subverted
    As Jesus himself explained, in his illustration the man who sowed wheat in the field represents Jesus, and the seeds he planted represent true Christians. The enemy who sowed weeds among the wheat represents “the Devil.” The weeds represent lawless, apostate men who falsely claim to be servants of God. (Matthew 13:36-42) The apostle Paul gave further details of what would happen. He said: “I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.” Did what Jesus illustrated and what Paul foretold come true? It certainly did. Ambitious men took control of the congregation that Jesus had established and used it for their own ends. Jesus had told his followers: “You are no part of the world.” (John 15:19) Nevertheless, power-hungry men formed alliances with rulers and formed State churches that amassed immense power and wealth. These churches taught “twisted things.” For example, they taught people to worship the State and to sacrifice their lives for it in warfare. Thus, so-called Christians participated in Crusades and slaughtered people whom they considered to be unbelievers. They also went to war and killed their own “brothers” of the same religion. They certainly did not practice Christian neutrality and love of neighbor.—Matthew 22:37-39; John 15:19; 2 Corinthians 10:3-5; 1 John 4:8, 11.
    Peter was one of the earliest of Jesus’ disciples, being led to Jesus by Andrew, a disciple of John the Baptizer. The writing of the Bible book of Peter was completed in 64 C.E.

    While the birth of the Catholic Church may be pinpointed at A.D. 325, when Constantine decided the debate on the trinity held at Nicea in favor of Athanasius and against Arius, it was not until after the year A.D. 440 that the bishop of the Roman see, Leo I, became in fact the first pope. He was the first Roman bishop able to hold undisputed sway over the other three sees into which the Christian world at that time was divided, namely, the Constantinopolitan, the Antiochian and the Alexandrian.

    Upon becoming bishop of Rome, Leo I stated: “I will revive government once more upon this earth; not by bringing back the Caesars, but by declaring a new theocracy, by making myself the vicegerent of Christ, by virtue of the promise made to Peter, whose successor I am, in order to restore law, punish crime, head off heresy, encourage genius, conserve peace, heal dissensions, protect learning; appealing to love, but ruling by fear. Who but the Church can do this? A theocracy will create a new civilization. Not a diadem, but a tiara will I wear, a symbol of universal sovereignty, before which barbarism shall flee away.”—Beacon Lights of History, Vol. III, pages 244, 245.

    The dismal record of the men that claimed apostolic succession and the result of this “new civilization” has been the rejection of religion by many people of science in modern society for its resistance to scientific progress, its dismal record, and its hypocrisy and cruelty. Professor of microbiology John Postgate points out: "The world's religions have . . . brought the horrors of human sacrifice, crusades, pogroms and inquisitions. In the modern world this darker side of religion has become dangerous. For unlike science, religion is not neutral."

    Yielding to neutrality, both science and religion, in their noblest forms, involve the search for truth. The Age of Enlightenment and constitutional monarchies put an end to the Dark Ages, not church officials. This paved the way for the restoration of God's visible organization. Using the Bible and secular resources the early Bible students pinpointed the end of the gentile times. Thy Kingdom Come 1st Edition - 1891 This Time of the End, or day of Jehovah preparation beginning A. D. 1799 and closing A.D. 1914, though characterized by a great increase of knowledge over all past ages, is to culminate in the greatest time of trouble the world has ever known; but it is nevertheless preparing for and leading into that blessed time so long promised, when the true Kingdom of God, under the control of the true Christ, will fully establish an order of government the very reverse of that of Antichrist. Page 59 Based on the best astronomical tables available (e.g. the Brown University Studies, Vol. XIX, Babylonian Chronology 626 B.C.—A.D. 75, Parker and Dubberstein, p. 29) along with the seventy years of desolation foretold by the prophet Jeremiah, pinpoints 607 B.C.E. as the date of Jerusalem's destruction and the 20th Century as the restoration of God's Kingdom. “It was in B.C. 606, that God’s kingdom ended, the diadem was removed, and all the earth given up to the Gentiles. 2520 years from B.C. 606, will end in A.D. 1914.”—The Three Worlds, published in 1877, page 83. The 1914 prophecy is based on fulfillment. Fulfillment is the criteria that deemed it a legitimate prophecy, not the strict dependency on imperfect, uninspired worldly documents . A comprehensive historical worldview of the 6000 years of human history beginning with Adamic sin to the fulfillment of the 1914 prophecy speaks volumes about the authenticity of Russell’s public statement in (the Three Worlds, published in 1877). Opponents of Jehovah's Witnesses tend to ignore the significance of this for no good reason. It's a bit of a gambit to bank on something catastrophic occurring in 1914 if the facts indicate otherwise. w90 10/15 p. 16 par. 2 Be Thankful—Jehovah’s Messianic Kingdom Rules

    During the first half of 1914, the world seemed secure and safe from war. But peace was suddenly shattered with the assassination of the heir to the Austrian throne by a Serb on June 28, 1914. Austria-Hungary soon declared war against Serbia. Russia took sides with Serbia, so Germany declared war against Russia on August 1. Then Germany declared war against France on August 3; Great Britain against Germany on August 4; Montenegro against Austria-Hungary on August 7; Japan against Germany on August 23; Austria-Hungary against Belgium on August 28. Many believed that the war would soon be over. Instead, it escalated into the worst war of history up till that time, with 19 more countries taking sides in an international bloodbath that cost over 13,000,000 military and civilian lives, with over 21,000,000 maimed and wounded.


    It's been well established that secular history does not always contain the same interlocking harmony found in the Bible, and at times, separate secular historical accounts conflict with each other. If a person chooses to allow discrepancies between certain aspects of history and the Bible to obscure the truth found in God's Word, that's a personal choice. Opponents of Jehovah’s Witnesses like Carl O. Jonsson are often duplicitous as to their fundamental core beliefs, whether they are a theist, agnostic or an atheist. The only fact that shines through in their character is that they’re bitterly opposed to Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  • palmtree67
    palmtree67

    Alice,

    Why don't you debate this on one of the MYRIADs of threads already devoted to debating 537? Have you even read any of them?

    I'm not going to read your giant cut-and-paste, searching for the tiny kernel of information that may be hidden in there, but basically you are saying.......

    "Although there is very little secular confirmation for the JW viewpoint, you should all accept it anyways."

    You are treating this issue like it is new to this forum. But, everyone here has already looked at the issue in its entirety.

    Call me when you have an original thought and not just a cut-and-paste.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Cut and paste of others peoples work proves nothing..

    Theres 20 missing years in the WBT$ patch work,uneducated,unprovable theory..

    History doesn`t support the WBT$`s 607 BCE,because it`s Bullshit..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • GrandmaJones
    GrandmaJones

    I don't understand your motivation. Really.

  • Spade
    Spade

    "I don't understand your motivation. Really."

    I don't understand Carl O. Jonsson's motivation. Really.

  • palmtree67
    palmtree67
    I don't understand Carl O. Jonsson's motivation. Really.

    Thus, proving that you haven't informed yourself on the issue before posting the giant cut-and-paste.

    Go back and read the other threads, Alice. Then post a rebuttal with your disagreements. Try to put it in your own words.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    I don't understand Carl O. Jonsson's motivation. Really.....Spade/AliceInWonderLand

    He`s probably sick of WBT$ Bullshit..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • Spade
    Spade

    "Thus, proving that you haven't informed yourself on the issue before posting the giant cut-and-paste."

    It's not a giant cut and paste. I populated this information with plenty of my own input.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Alice..

    There is no way to tell what is Your Work and what is Cut and Paste..

    Anyone who supports 607 BCE..Is probably Sniffing the Paste..

    ...................... ...OUTLAW

  • palmtree67
    palmtree67
    I populated this information with plenty of my own input.

    Baloney. There's so much crap in that post that has nothing to do with the issue, it's not even funny. Just one example:

    Length of this cylinder is 22.86 Centimetre, and it is now kept in the British Museum;

    Why is this important to disproving the date? Please, cut out all the crap and make your point in your own words.

    Until you cut out the crap that has nothing to do with your point - very few people here read anything you post.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit