Blind Allegiance to G.B. supported by scripture?

by honorsthesis 47 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    Spade,

    You're presenting a false dichotomy. Don't get me wrong, many people here are simply making excuses. But just because some here (perhaps many, perhaps most) are wrong doesn't make the Governing Body seating itself in the seat of Moses right. That is typical Jehovah's Witness logic: If we can find fault with other people, that will make us right. Sure, most of the doctrine is sound, but so was that of the Pharisees. They weren't teaching a triune God, Hellfire, immortal soul, etc. Their main fault was their dictatorial attitude and placing themselves above the people, to enforce their own version of God's word; to glorify themselves. The Governing Body does exactly the same thing, demanding unquestioned obedience of fellow humans; fellow Christians. There is zero precedent for that in Scripture, without some convoluted chaining together of unrelated points, reading far more into the text than what it states, and some blind faith in the 'interpretation' presented by the very people who claim the interpretation is about them, which is circular logic.

    They use 607 B.C.E., which is demonstrably false. They cherry-pick and rewrite prophetic interpretations they've made, after the fact. They use the "1st-century governing body" example in Acts, which is a blatant twisting of actual events. They make and repeal doctrine on a whim, with no regard for fact or Scripture. They use a remark Jesus makes one time about a faithful and discrete slave and make several leaps about when that will be (even though it appears it will be immediately before the Great Tribulation), who it will be, what it will mean, etc.

    With so much of the Bible warning against following humans, why would Jesus foretell a group of humans becoming "God's exclusive channel of communication" with an offhand remark? Human leadership is not permitted in Christianity, per many, many Biblical verses. The "books" have been repeatedly and obviously cooked many times by the very people who claim a position that shouldn't exist. They insist anything but slavish devotion to their every whim is equivalent to turning one's back on Jehovah himself. Great claims demand great evidence and the Governing Body just doesn't offer it. In fact, when you check their credentials, their claims, and their arithmetic, none of it adds up to any proof. They are no different from the Pharisees. Any rights of claim you feel they have, the Pharisees made 2000 years ago and with more to back their claims.

    For truly, if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle? - 1Cor 14:8

    If you feel you need some men who can't figure out what "generation" means - because they're still trying to make the 1914 date useful long after its expiration date - to interpret the Bible for everybody else, you're calling God a liar.

    All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work. - 2Tim 3:16-17 (emphasis added)

    But no, the Governing Body wants us to read the Watchtower to set things in the Bible straight. They tell us the only way to be fully competent and completely equipped is with their literature. I believe we can agree that churches exist to confuse people. Nobody who reads the Bible on his/her own would ever come up with the Trinity doctrine. That kind of confusion and twisting of God's word can only come from substantial outside influence from an authoritarian clergy class. Likewise, nobody would ever come to the conclusion there should be a "Governing Body" calling the shots in the Christian congregation without the Watchtower twisting the Scriptures to that meaning.

    Do I claim the Watchtower literature isn't mostly accurate? no. But the Pharisees were mostly accurate. Do I claim the Watchtower literature isn't used by God? no. But so was the Pharisee arrangement; they were, after all, priests in God's Temple and synagogues. But when the GB and elders start trying to trump the Bible with their writings, they've overstepped their authority to teach and shepherd the flock. They've begun skinning the flock and tossing it around, to their fleeting, personal opinions and rules. If an elder comes to me about some wrongdoing on my part, I'll humbly accept his counsel. When that same elder comes to me about the style (not the content) of music I listen to because it's not the same as his, I'll dismiss him and his opinion. When he invokes "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead" to order me around to suit his personal agenda, I'll tell him he's off his nut. If you don't think that's exactly what's going on at a congregation level and an organization level, then you're either totally blind, brown-nosing, or very fortunate.

    The Watchtower has usurped authority over the world-wide congregation to tell us we can't have organ transplants, accept vaccines, get sterilized, wear beards, women can't wear pants (except on a farm), our physical heart in our chest controls our emotions, Jehovah lives on a planet in the Pleiades and many other things I'm sure you're aware of since you come to this forum. Then, they demand we believe every crumb of "spiritual food" they force feed us or risk being "marked" or labeled an apostate and thrown out.

    Every saying of God is refined. He is a shield to those taking refuge in him. Add nothing to his words, that he may not reprove you, and that you may not have to be proved a liar. - Prov 30:5-6

    To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion [to them] is wearisome to the flesh. - Ecc 12:12

    "In the abundance of words there does not fail to be transgression, but the one keeping his lips in check is acting discreetly." (Prov 10:19) But no, the Watchtower has to weigh in on everything, constantly reminding us that they are "God's mouthpiece", even making rules on subjects where the Bible remains silent. They invalidate the Bible with their Watchtower traditions, adding rules that don't exist and ignoring ones that do. Time after time, throughout history - in Israel, in Rome when Jesus and the apostles were present, during the Inquisitions, during the Reformation -individuals have had to choose between a corruption of the truth and their God. We are quickly approaching that crossroad again. Will you follow a false prophet who has seated himself in the seat of Moses or will you allow the Bible to speak its truth to you without filtering it through fallible human understanding with imperfect human motivations?

    I don't promote separation from the organization, but warn against a devotion to it or turning a blind eye to what direction it's taking. Jehovah's house has once again been taken over. It needs righteous Christians to balance the scales. But stop looking outward for all potential threats. The "evil slave" will be inside. They Bible doesn't say they beat former fellow slaves, but "fellow slaves". The disgusting thing will be standing in the holy place, not a fake holy place or a formerly-holy place. It's not Jesus' time to oust the current leadership, and to presume to attack them on our own would probably prove detrimental to us. But, not recognizing a difference between the Creator of the Universe and a group of men will be infinitely more destructive. When you hear "wait on Jehovah" and think "wait on the Watchtower", you've lost your direction. We've been warned enough, through God's Word, to take personal responsibility for our doctrine, our thoughts, our feelings, our actions, and our worship. Be very, very careful not to give what belongs to God to a publishing company or the men in charge of it.

    Cursed is the able-bodied man who puts his trust in earthling man and actually makes flesh his arm. - Jer 17:3

    even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. - Gal 1:8

  • Listener
    Listener

    Band on the Run - I am finding it difficult to work out what is going on here but I haven't been on this forum under any other names. There is another forum member called TheListener who I don't know and sent me a PM soon after I started posting and asked me to change my name.

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    omg - listener - botr also has you down as me and honourthesis. this is unbelievable.

    I have flu so I am not at work today. I have had to explain on another thread that I am not honoutrhises. I am not even American, and have never been there.

    What I find most shocking is how many people believe BOTR. Perhaps this because of her persuasive rhetoric from her legal backround. But surely such ability carries with it a sense of responsibility and a greater sense of discernment? She makes assumptions and sticks to them not allowing for the fact that her assumptions are based partly on ignorance and stupidity.

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    botr says

    Someone else, not me, googled him. HonorsThesis, Curtains, Listener are simultaneously a treasurer of their local Republican club at college

    botr - please get help.

    edit: have you considered that whoever did this google search may be joking around with you

  • free2think
    free2think

    I just wanted to say for the record QuietlyLeaving and myself know Curtains in rl and she isn't american, she lives in the UK.

    But I felt I had to say this to stop this crazy witch hunt. WTF is wrong with you people for believing such crap. If you're taken in by this one person (Band on the run) ON THE INTERNET what does that say????

    Btw for the record Band on the run: I think someone's fucking with you.

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    thank you free2think but you are blowing my cover - ple delete your post.

    edit: okay nevermind - leave it. I'm done with this place - now if only I could get over my addiction

  • free2think
    free2think

    I'm just sorry I recommended this place to you. It's not what it used to be I can tell you that!!! SMDH!

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    you guys did warn me about the americans - they do pop out some crazies. But in the main i have found them no different from Brits and very nice people

    my thanks to Tec, nikolas, Leolaia, TD, Juan Miguel and many others

  • free2think
    free2think
    you guys did warn me about the americans - they do pop out some crazies. But in the main i have found them no different from Brits and very nice people

    Ain't that the truth.

  • Listener
    Listener

    BOTR you mention disclaimers but you accused me of being a treasurer of some Republican Club. I find that offensive and would probably be even more offended if I was American but we don't have these clubs in Australia.

    I understand your frustration with people posting under multiple user names and I don't agree with this myself but having been a member on another forum for a few years I understand this happens but if you examine posts closely and use some intelligent perception you can often work things out.

    It would be more respectful of you to PM a member before making absurd claims, it is very childish and causes trouble when the claims are false. If you are a lawyer you should be the first to comprehend this.

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