Why would abandoning 1914 mean they are not chosen by God?

by InterestedOne 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  InterestedOne

  Nathan Natas - I only chose the name "InterestedOne" as a mild dig at the way they label everyone. Unfortunately, my friend was baptized in 2003. I got into this because she fooled me with "informal witnessing." I thought we were friends, and now I am in the process of understanding what is really going on with JW's. I am hurt by this "informal witnessing" BS, and asking questions/discussing the issues is helping me work through my feelings. I am learning a lot that applies not just to JW's, but anyone who uses manipulative tactics. The tactics are an interesting mix of logic and emotion. Your spider web & fishhooks illustration is brilliant.

  Flipper - I believe all those things you said make them not chosen by God - as if God is even doing the kind of "choosing" with which they frame the matter. I was asking the title question because I've heard comments on other threads saying things like "if they change 1914, they lose their claim to be exclusively chosen by God." I was wondering, from a purely logical/doctrinal standpoint, why removing 1914 removes their claim of authority - like why the specific number/date matters at all within their framework. Basically, it's like an engineering question of robustness. If you do a robust design, various components of the piece of equipment can change without affecting the overall performance. I was asking about how robust the JW doctrinal framework is to 1914 - how changing 1914 would supposedly cause their claim of authority to fall apart, if at all.
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  DanaBug

  "Under the direction of this religious corporation the great world-wide campaign to announce the 1914 end of the "times of the nations" was undertaken, as mentioned earlier. The Watch Tower witnesses of Jehovah proved to be awake spiritual watchmen. But the Scriptures describe them as having unclean garments because of their long association with Christian apostasy. (Zech. 3:3, 4) They had many practices, characteristics and beliefs similar to the weedlike sects of Christendom. So from 1914 to 1918 a period of fiery testing came upon them, not unlike the ancient period of Babylonish captivity of the Jews back in 607-537 B.C. ...

  ... As we now know, this watchman class of the "faithful and discreet slave" was being cleansed for still greater watchman service in the turbulent years to follow their restoration in 1919. Previously, in the spring of 1918, Jehovah came to his temple of earthly Christian servants for inspection and cleansing. (Mal. 3:1-3) The many bad ones were disfellowshiped by Him and sent away. A loyal remnant were permitted to go through the fiery test where Jehovah and his Messenger, Christ Jesus, (1) tested them by organization arrangements on their loyalty to Jehovah's organization rather than to human leaders, (2) tested them by service instructions and provisions as to their zeal and devotion to Jehovah's worship and witness work, and (3) tested them by revealed truth as to their love of it. What a fiery time it was!-See You May Survive Armageddon into God's New World, pp. 303 to 305.

  Wow. I've never seen this before. That's quite a statement. You'd think during all this cleansing and testing, they would have stopped celebrating Christmas, using the cross, or worshipping Jesus? Hopefully God or Jesus would've let them know that the prophets of old were not going to be resurrected. But no, they just got them better organized, gave them instructions for service, let them be persecuted, and kicked out the ones who didn't agree with Rutherford. The pagan practices and wrong doctrines weren't that important or dirty apparently.
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  Nathan Natas

  IO, thanks for the compliment about the spider web/fishhooks phrase, but I have to give credit to the TV show "Justified" (the FX network on DirecTV), about a US marshal and his adventures in eastern Kentucky. In one episode, hillbilly pot growers have rigged "spiderwebs" of lightweight fishing line with fishhooks where each line of the web crosses another. One of the bad guys runs into it. OUCH! That'll leave a mark!

  Anyone unfamiliar with "Justified" should check it out. I think you can watch episodes over the internet if you don't have cable/satellite.

  "Thirty hours a day spent watching TV is not too much!"
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  mkr32208

  I think it's pretty clear they could say whatever the heck they wanted and the diehards would say "ok, no problem" and just keep going.
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  Listener

  MS said , does anyone high enough in the Bethel hierarchy have the intellectual chops and audacity to both craft a new and improved doctrine as well as push it through the channels needed to get it approved?

  A very interesting statement, it's not supposed to be about them. Their one and only channel is Jesus and if they don't recognize that then thy will never get it right. They're all looking at themselves, they look to their old teachings and try to stick pretty much to it, they've fallen into their own trap. Seems to me that they neither have the courage nor conviction to get it right.

  They emphasize the need to put our trust in Jehovah but have they and will they ever demonstrate this with more accurate doctrines rather than just meddlying with long held beliefs?
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  diamondiiz

  It looks like at this time the agenda is to place GB in position of worship-like status and I'm guessing only then will these men will be able to do something about 1914. They will have to sell an idea that Christians shouldn't be serving with a date in mind or they will just simply eliminate mentioning 1914 and hope that as older ones die out and younger ones get recruited the idea or 1914 will just get forgotten. Either way, they will have to do something about this in their typical deceitful way.
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  factfinder

  There certainly is a lot of good information here.

  I think it has been shown that the wt has too much vested in 1914 to be able to change it.

  They will just have to mention it less and less and wait for those of us who were taught it to die off. Then they can come up with something different.

  Some here feel that if the wts were to get rid of 1914 most jws would not care. I'm not so sure. The whole thing could collapse - millions could be stumbled and leave.

  If they gave up 1914 while I was still a witness- I would have been stumbled and left. They need something to keep a sense of urgency going or the pioneers and pubs will stop preaching.

  What could they come up with? I think they are stuck. Just mention it less and less and hope new members won't pay much attention to it.

  What else could they do?
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  factfinder

  diamondiiz- yes, it seems the gb are trying to get themselves into a position of exaltation so that they can not be questioned.