Why would abandoning 1914 mean they are not chosen by God?

by InterestedOne 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mary
    Mary

    If 1914 was a 'stand-alone' doctrine, they could easily abandon it in favour of 1934 or 1935 being the 'beginning of The End' and most Witnesses would just sit there with a glazed look on their face and never doubt anything they said.

    However, because they were stupid enough to claim that 3 1/2 years (or, 1260 days) after Jesus returned, that they were chosen as the 'faithful and discreet slave', then they cannot abandon 1914 without screwing themselves or their position as God's Sole Channel. They really don't give a rat's ass about Jesus and I doubt many of the Goobering Body members even believe this doctrine anymore. However, the party line cannot be challenged: without 1914, there's no appointment and thus they lose all of their control over millions of lives. And that is something they want to avoid at all costs.

  • 3Mozzies
    3Mozzies

    Why would abandoning 1914 mean they are not chosen by God?

    Let us allow the Watchtower Corp to explain 'why?' from their book: "God's Kingdom Has Approached"

    *** ka chap. 17 pp. 349-357 The “Slave” Who Lived to See the “Sign” ***

    TIME OF INSPECTION BY THE SLAVE’S MASTER

    38 Without a question of doubt, it was a real time for inspection of the Master’s “slave” class. All the facts of the case argue that the Master came for the work of inspection at the time. Such a thing was to be expected according to the prophecy of Malachi 3:1-5. Of course, the sectarian churches of Christendom had made a wartime record for themselves, an open record that had a heavy bearing on their claim to be disciples and slaves of Jesus Christ. Could they, by even their latest record down till 1919, prove that they themselves were the composite “faithful and discreet slave” class of the heavenly Lord and Master, Jesus Christ? He as Judge would indicate what his findings were by the way he thereafter dealt with the hundreds of religious sects of Christendom. Appropriately, now, our attention focuses upon those sincere, Bible-studying Christians who, during World War I, were persecuted for their obedience to Christ and who became “objects of hatred by all the nations” on account of Christ’s name. Since they also came under divine inspection, what did the Master show to be his decision on them?

    39 According to Jesus’ illustration, how did the master who appointed the slave return to his house? Was it in great rage in order to destroy the house? Or was it to enjoy his homecoming and to see how things had been going on during his absence? His return to his house was a peaceful one. He did not come to engage in the “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Har–Magedon. (Revelation 16:13-16) Rather, he wanted to make sure that his domestic affairs were in the right condition. Had his appointed slave done as he was assigned to do, namely, give to the “domestics” their “food at the proper time”? The master needed to make an inspection.

    40 The serving of food, the right sort of food, at the proper time was the issue. It had to be according to this that a decision must be rendered by the returned master. Well, then, what about that body of Christians internationally hated and persecuted? (Matthew 24:9) Down to 1919 C.E. they had endeavored to give “food at the proper time” to the “household of faith” or the “domestics” of the heavenly Master. They did this despite interference by persecutors and the warring nations. Not only was the regularity in serving the spiritual food a problem, but the quality of the food itself was to be considered. In this respect the body of hated, persecuted Christians, who always sought to be faithful slaves of Jesus Christ, met the test. During the years of the world conflict they had not joined Christendom or pagandom in preaching the war propaganda submitted by the political governments. They persisted in preaching the Bible message for the time and in advocating a Christian adherence to Bible principles for everybody.

    41 What, then, did the heavenly Master decide regarding these obedient slaves of his? He was not influenced by their unpopular, persecuted position in the war-mad world, for he had foretold such a hard experience for them during his invisible parousia or “presence.” Did he find that body of Christian slaves disregarding the unpopularity of the world and seeking to be pleasing to their Master by doing what he had appointed to be done during his absence? He must have found them so, according to the way the inspection, begun in 1919, has affected his decision since. His actions, his dealings with his Christian slaves, speak louder than words.

    42 Let us reflect a moment on the case of Jesus’ apostles. Three and a half years after being baptized in the Jordan River, Jesus Christ was betrayed in the garden of Gethsemane. He quoted from the prophecy of Zechariah 13:7 and foretold what would happen to his apostles, saying: “All of you will be stumbled in connection with me on this night, for it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered about.’ But after I have been raised up, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.” (Matthew 26:31, 32) Jesus’ application of Zechariah’s prophecy to his apostles proved true on that same night of Nisan 14, 33 C.E., for the account in Matthew 26:56 tells what occurred after Jesus’ betrayal: “Then all the disciples abandoned him and fled.” His “sheep” were indeed scattered.

    43 In parallel fashion, three and a half years after the close of the Gentile Times and Christ’s enthronement in the heavens in 1914 C.E., there came the annual celebration of the Lord’s Supper on Tuesday, March 26, 1918. The scattering of the heavenly Shepherd’s “sheep” was then nearing its climax, and The Watch Tower, under date of March 1, 1918, in its first paragraph of the leading article “In Memory of Our King,” said: “Whether the coming Memorial will be the last on earth, we do not, of course, know; but we do know that we are one year nearer the full consummation of our hopes. If it please the Lord to have us celebrate this Memorial other years, then we shall do so gladly.” The outlook blackened as prominent ones of the Watch Tower Society who had to do with the feeding of the heavenly Shepherd’s “sheep” were arrested, unfairly tried and sentenced to many years in Federal Penitentiary. It was not then appreciated that Zechariah 13:7 was being fulfilled.

    44 However, there was a bright side to this prophecy. It not only foretold the striking of the shepherd and the scattering of the sheep but also added Jehovah’s promise: “And I shall certainly turn my hand back upon those who are insignificant.” That meant a turning back of Jehovah’s hand upon the scattered sheep with favor. And so Jesus, after quoting from the prophecy about the scattering of the sheep, reassured his apostles by adding: “But after I have been raised up, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.” (Matthew 26:32) This meant that, after his resurrection from the dead, he would regather them. This actually took place, and concerning this we read: “The eleven disciples went into Galilee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them, and when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubted. And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: ‘All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.’”—Matthew 28:16-20.

    45 Similarly, in the year 1919, Jehovah did “turn [his] hand back upon those who are insignificant.” (Zechariah 13:7) Jehovah’s Shepherd-King, Jesus Christ, did begin regathering the scattered “sheep.” Like the slave’s master in the illustration, the Lord Jesus did return to his house and inspect the situation within it. He did find there a “faithful and discreet slave” class that was striving, in spite of world conditions, to do as commanded, give the Lord’s “domestics” at the proper time their spiritual food, food taken from the inspired Word of God. So the Lord showed his favor by regathering them into a well-organized body of “domestics” in his house. The eight-day general convention held at Cedar Point, Ohio, on September 1-8, 1919, was a notification to all the world that the invisibly present Lord Jesus Christ was regathering his faithful “sheep.” It indicated to the world who it was that the returned Lord Jesus had found to be his “faithful and discreet slave” class. This made the “slave” class happy. It meant their being retained in the service of their heavenly Master.

    46 The Lord Jesus explained why the state of the “faithful and discreet slave” was a happy one, for Jesus said: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving [Greek: elthòn] finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, He will appoint him over all his belongings.”—Matthew 24:46, 47; Luke 12:42-44.
    APPOINTED OVER ALL THE MASTER’S BELONGINGS

    47 The Lord Jesus pronounced the “faithful and discreet slave” happy because of what awaited him as a reward for his doing as his master appointed him to do. He gets a promotion, with larger responsibilities toward the master to whom he is so faithful. This is so, doubtless, because his master has also been clothed with larger responsibilities. Certainly the master does not leave his house and go on a journey as a mere touring sightseer or for his health. He had a more serious objective in mind, one that would enhance his position and increase his power and authority. And when we consider that Jesus was making an illustration here that applied to his departing to heaven to receive a kingdom after a long wait at his Father’s right hand, we know that this increase in the master’s responsibilities is implied in the illustration. The master is to be understood as returning home in a new and larger capacity. (Hebrews 10:12, 13) Hence “all his belongings” take on a larger value. So the promoted “slave” shares honors with his lord.

    48 In the fulfillment of the prophetic illustration, the “master,” the Lord Jesus Christ, did obtain a heavenly kingdom when the “appointed times of the nations” ended in 1914 C.E. So his invisible parousia or “presence” began in that year with him as crowned reigning King on the heavenly throne. When he returned to his “household staff” in 1919 to make an inspection of all his “domestics,” he did so in a royal capacity such as he had not possessed when he was down here on earth in the first century. This put the “faithful and discreet slave” class in the service of a personage who had greater rank, authority and power than the one whom they had been serving hitherto. This made service to him much more important now. It was a higher honor now to be in his service. And for one to receive a promotion from him and thereby be entrusted with heavier responsibilities was a reward indeed!

    49 In the illustration, before the master departs, he gives a limited responsibility to the one who is expected to be a “faithful and discreet slave.” He appoints this slave over only his domestics or household staff with the obligation to give them their due food at the proper time. Consequently, when, at his return, the master appoints the approved slave “over all his belongings,” it signifies larger obligations for the promoted slave. Now he can demonstrate his faithfulness and discreetness in a larger way, for he has supervision over more things. He becomes a prized slave.
    50 In the fulfillment of the illustration, “all his belongings” over which the master appoints the worthy slave do not picture all his belongings up in heaven. The glorified Master, Jesus Christ, to whom “all authority” in heaven and on the earth has been given, is not incapable of taking care of all his “belongings” up in the invisible heavens where his holy angels are in his service. “All his belongings” over which the “faithful and discreet slave” class is appointed must refer to all the spiritual things that belong to him on earth in connection with his established heavenly kingdom. It does not mean any part in the political governments of this world as if the King Jesus Christ were now running and controlling all these man-made political institutions. Those institutions are doomed to destruction. “All his belongings” therefore mean the performing of a role on earth in the fulfillment of the prophecies that apply since the establishment of the Kingdom in the heavens in 1914 C.E.

    51On inspecting the remnant of his anointed disciples in the year 1919 C.E., the reigning King Jesus Christ did find the appointed “slave” faithful and discreet in the feeding of his “domestics.” Accordingly, he appointed this “slave” class over all his belongings. Their enlarged responsible position now was that of serving in fulfillment of the now due Kingdom prophecies. All through the centuries the “faithful and discreet slave” class has been made up of those who are “ambassadors substituting for Christ,” which ambassadors make an entreaty to people to become reconciled to God through Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:19, 20) Since their appointment in 1919, however, they are ambassadors of the inaugurated Messianic kingdom, with a Kingdom message that has taken on new meaning and force. (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10) Theirs is the privilege and responsibility to lend themselves as instruments for the carrying out of the Kingdom prophecies that have their finalizing fulfillment since 1914 C.E. What an honor it is for them to be used in the working out of what the book of Revelation foretells with all its marvelous symbolisms and its glorious news about the thousand-year reign of Christ!

    52 All these are privileges, responsibilities, dignities and honors that have been reserved for the remnant of the “faithful and discreet slave” class and that are bestowed upon them by their heavenly Master, the reigning King Jesus Christ. No wonder they can be pronounced “happy”! Their being charged with these precious things denotes an elevation of them indeed. It resembles the picture presented in Revelation 11:11, 12 concerning the “two witnesses” killed by the enemy, whose dead bodies lay exposed in the broad way of the Sodom-like “great city” for three and a half days: “And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: ‘Come on up here.’ And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them.”

    53 Their being charged with such elevated privileges and responsibilities has meant more work for those making up the composite “faithful and discreet slave.” It has called for more time and attention on their part, also for the use of larger facilities for getting the work done in order that the Bible prophecies concerning this Kingdom work on earth fail not. They have also had to work over a larger field, all parts of the inhabited earth. (Revelation 14:6, 7; 10:11) Of course, the feeding program toward the Lord’s “domestics” has had to continue on. And with what a spiritual table of Scriptural food they have been fed! The disposing of any remaining stocks of the Studies in the Scriptures by C. T. Russell and of The Finished Mystery in the year 1927 produced no shortage of spiritual food for these “domestics.” New and up-to-date bound books and booklets and tracts have continued to be published since the book The Harp of God in 1921. Yes, in October of 1919 a companion to The Watch Tower was published in the form of the magazine The Golden Age (now entitled “Awake!”).

    54 Added to the privileges and responsibilities of the rewarded “faithful and discreet slave” class was their working for the realization of the beautiful vision seen by the apostle John under inspiration and described by him in Revelation 7:9-17. Yes, since the year 1935 the “slave” class has seen that vision come to reality. Their blessed eyes see the numerically unlimited “great crowd” from everywhere over the earth praising and worshiping Jehovah God at his spiritual temple and crediting salvation to Him and to his Lamb, Jesus Christ. It has meant a great responsibility for the “faithful and discreet slave” class of spiritual Israelites to take care of this continually increasing “great crowd,” but they realize that these sheeplike ones “out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues” are a precious part of “all his belongings” on the earth and so they are happy to take care of the spiritual needs of these “other sheep.” In turn, this “great crowd” is assisting the “faithful and discreet slave” in taking care of all the Lord’s earthly “belongings.”

    55 Blah blah blah . . .

    3Mozzies

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Because if 1914 wasn't true it would fracture the organization has being the one and only earthly organization chosen by god

    to be his true representatives on earth, something the WTS. has proclaimed since 1919. It has come to past now that no one is still alive

    that witnessed the so called events of 1914, even still the WTS. knows very well on how they've greatly they

    have lamented on the doctrine of 1914, hence the reason of the recent change of generation to generation(s),

    a deliberate switching around of words spoken by Jesus himself.

    The 1914 doctrine is soon to washed under the table most likely replaced by something else to spur the emotional incoming fear of Armageddon.

    It really comes down to a case of viability and credibility.

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    Thank you all. This is helping. I can see how they need to maintain the two premises - Christ returning and choosing the FDS. However, the thing I'm not seeing is why the exact date is required. I could envision them smearing it a little bit to "early in the 20th century" to get out of the 607/587 problem and the 3-1/2 year problem. Why does the exact date bring everything crashing down?

  • sherah
    sherah

    IO - "why the exact date is required" and "Why does the exact date bring everything crashing down?"

    The WT requires, by their own calculations, that in 1914 Christ arrived (not the original prediction btw) and that 3 1/2 years after that in 1919, Christ chose them as the FDS out of all the religions. The WT sticks with the calculations that add up to 1914 even though secular evidence shows that Jerusalem was destroyed 586/587. They will lose credibility and authority if they start tinkering with their calculations now.

  • Ding
    Ding

    I agree with OTWO.

    Most JWs will buy any "new light" the GB gives them.

    They'd lose some people, but not a very high percentage.

  • TD
    TD
    However, the thing I'm not seeing is why the exact date is required. I could envision them smearing it a little bit to "early in the 20th century"

    The problem with that is the JW faith wasn't invented yesterday. This is a story that, "Grew in the telling" as the saying goes.

    Jehovah's Witnesses started off in the 1870's as premillennial dispensationalists. They pointed forward to 1914 as the end of the "Gentile Times"; the farthest limit of the rule of man; the culmination of the "Time of the End" etc., etc. for decades before the fact. 1914 and the calculation they use to arrive at that year lay at the core of their eschatology from the very beginning.

    If you look at the quote that 3mozzies gave, you can see that the claimed basis for being selected by Jesus in 1919 was what they were teaching at the time.

    In other words, when the Master returned in 1914, Jehovah's Witnesses were rewarded because among other things, they were the only ones teaching that the Master had returned.

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Denying 1914 (and 607) would be going too far. The religion would cease to exist, theologically speaking. It's the hub of the wheel.

    1) If 1914 is wrong, and 607 is wrong, which they are, it proves they are false prophets and false prophets do not represent YHWH .

    2) Christ did not sit down to rule in 1914

    3) There was no second coming of Christ in 1914

    4) They could not have been chosen in 1919, as Mary said.

    5) They would have to burn all of their books and pamphlets to make tangenital changes.

    http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/1914_jehovahs_witnesses_christs_second_coming.html

    http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/607_bce_586_587_destruction_fall_desolation_jerusalem.html

    http://www.144000.110mb.com/607/index.html

  • InterestedOne
    InterestedOne

    Ok. I think I'm starting to see. There are several PR problems they would have to solve. They would have to find an ingenious way to admit that 607 is incorrect without looking like complete fools because everyone was telling them they were wrong in the first place - they'd have to humbly admit that "the world" was right afterall. They would have a huge body of printed work saying 1914 over and over again that would have to be abandoned. The change would be glaring. I guess the reinterpretation of the word "generation" is a little easier to weasel around with, but a change in a very specific calculation would require re-writing volumes like Insight on the Scriptures and books like Reasoning From the Scriptures, etc. It would require quite a bit of re-tooling. For comparison, I'm curious how they got out of 1935 - which was also a specific date. My first guess is that maybe they morphed out of it - like slowly reducing the mention of it in print and then eventually abandoning it in such a way that the current literature didn't have to be re-done. Just a guess. Perhaps this is why I have seen threads where people point out the reduction in mention of 1914 as the years go by.

  • clarity
    clarity

    InterestedOne..thanks for posting this question. So much to understand isn't there?

    >

    Leavingwt's answer omg...I just did not see this before now!!!!!......

    "Their 'Good News' is not the good news in the NT. Their Good News is that Jesus stood up as King in 1914. So, if they drop 1914, they've lost their unique Gospel."

    I knew the scripture in 2Cor11:4 that talks about someone preaching a different Jesus or ... a different good news, other than what you accepted...., but never put it all together!

    Wow, I'm amazed thanks so much,

    with eyes opened even wider - clarity

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