Moving On Means Never Speaking Out Need Help With Research...

by Tuesday 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  peacefulpete

  if someone starts discussing their past and they start getting upset and it brings about hurt feelings most therapists would tell them that they haven't really addressed the problem or moved past it.

  I really disagree with that. Any therapist that insists that victims of abuse or war be able to remeber events without emotional impact is just incompetent. 'Moving on' clearly means different things in different situations. Moving on from a stupid argument with my wife means simply tossing it aside and not harboring hurt feelings. This is hardly possible for victims of serious abuse or war, or for many former JWs. Coping strategies that at some point (when the person understands what really happened and only assigns blame appropriately) include simply not deliberately thinking about past abuse are legitimate. Therefore if someone chooses to not discuss something painful, leave them have the peace that comes from having a disciplined mind. Perhaps that is the best that can be hoped for.
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  StoneWall

  You could always say something like, "Well why don't we just move on from discussing the sin in the garden of Eden. Why does JW's and other religions not move on and keep rehashing that tale that happened (or didn't happen) so long ago?"

  Why do we constantly hear at meetings or church about David's adultery with Bath-Sheba? Why doesn't everyone just move on and not focus on that?

  Flip the tables on them and make them explain why its OK for them to rehash old wrongs and yet they feel you can't.

  Edited to add: Actually if you take the whole bible as a fact, then its one long story of not being able to "move on" and we've been paying for it ever since.
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  Tuesday

  I really disagree with that. Any therapist that insists that victims of abuse or war be able to remeber events without emotional impact is just incompetent. 'Moving on' clearly means different things in different situations. Moving on from a stupid argument with my wife means simply tossing it aside and not harboring hurt feelings. This is hardly possible for victims of serious abuse or war, or for many former JWs. Coping strategies that at some point (when the person understands what really happened and only assigns blame appropriately) include simply not deliberately thinking about past abuse are legitimate. Therefore if someone chooses to not discuss something painful, leave them have the peace that comes from having a disciplined mind. Perhaps that is the best that can be hoped for.

  You can disagree all you want but you might want to look up some of the symptoms of PTSD which one of the main things is Avoidance Symptoms. My Father never even discussed Vietnam until recently, he avoided it like the plague. He wasn't over being in Vietnam at all, he hadn't really even addressed the thing at all. Even though he was a member of VFW and American Legion halls, he hung out with former veterans still in the vein of being "over it" he didn't talk about it. I fail to see how avoiding talking about a painful issue in life is moving on, it seems it's just avoiding it all together.

  There's lots of articles about avoidance of key issues.

  You should read Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell.

  Back on point though, does anyone have any articles that talk about this?
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  Joliette

  Great post Tuesday ;)
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  Tuesday

  BTTT for anyone who might have some articles before jumping into my Yoga workout for the night.
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  peacefulpete

  Well its a good thing neither of us are professionals because I think we are talking past each other. You seem to be describing emotional dissociation and use of drugs or alcohol to resist all emotions such as what many with PTSD engage in, while I'm describing the informed and conscious effort to avoid negative thoughts and accept that we have a measure of control over unwanted emotions. I did qualify my comment by saying that "at a certain point" a person can avoid undue negativity by choosing not to think about sad or tragic events. The person must have at some point experienced the emotions and let them run their course, but there is no value in afterward wallowing in the emotions nor any merit in shoveling up the past triggering negative emotions which will always exist to some extent. Recognizing that emotions are something that we can manage to some extent and learning how to do it seems to be what therapy is all about. Anyway, I want to make clear that our attempts at consulting a therapist regarding leaving the JWs was a sad waste of time and noone should take my comments here as anything but the ramblings of a guy with an internet education.
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  Tuesday

  Well its a good thing neither of us are professionals because I think we are talking past each other. You seem to be describing emotional dissociation and use of drugs or alcohol to resist all emotions such as what many with PTSD engage in, while I'm describing the informed and conscious effort to avoid negative thoughts and accept that we have a measure of control over unwanted emotions. I did qualify my comment by saying that "at a certain point" a person can avoid undue negativity by choosing not to think about sad or tragic events. The person must have at some point experienced the emotions and let them run their course, but there is no value in afterward wallowing in the emotions nor any merit in shoveling up the past triggering negative emotions which will always exist to some extent. Recognizing that emotions are something that we can manage to some extent and learning how to do it seems to be what therapy is all about. Anyway, I want to make clear that our attempts at consulting a therapist regarding leaving the JWs was a sad waste of time and noone should take my comments here as anything but the ramblings of a guy with an internet education.

  The point I'm making is that how do you know when it's fully run it's course. I'm saying that if you're still feeling the hurt and negativity when simply discussing something from your past there's a good chance you're not fully over it.

  I'll say that I'm not a professional therapist, my degree is in Creative Writing with a minor in Biology. I've taken a couple of psychology courses in college, what I do think I excel at though is thinking critically. So ask yourself, have you really "moved on" just because you decided to no longer talk about painful experiences or are you just falling into your former indoctrination that somehow that's how you're "supposed" to move on?
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  peacefulpete

  Well my training is in solar energy and mechanics lol. I'll just say that the emotion itself is not the problem. Those of us who tend to intellectualize life's issues might imagine that negative emotions can or should be erradicated. However, emotions are very very difficult to eradicate, nor should we seek to live without them. They are part of life. I can't imagine a healthy normal person not feeling sad when recalling a tragic event or personal loss. That isn't a sign of failing to move on or heal, it would strike me as abnormally dispassionate or detatched to not feel anything. It then becomes a choice of whether to do things or read material that might trigger unwanted emotions. I have a song that reminds me of a long lost love, I prefer not to hear it despite my having been happily married to another woman for nearly 20 years. Let's not idealize an analytical, clinical perspective, it's not human nature to be able to turn off emotions. We can somewhat manage them and understand them when we experience them.

  In the context of someone leaving the JWs, lets be realistic, suggesting to those who have lost the affection of parents and children that they should by some point no longer feel sadness is just misguided.