It doesn't matter if it was 50%, 10%, 1%, 0.00005%. They owned shares in it. They profited from it. They are culpable.
Do JWs Participate in Wars By Funding Them?
by cameo-d 30 Replies latest jw friends
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AudeSapere
It doesn't matter if it was 50%, 10%, 1%, 0.00005%. They owned shares in it. They profited from it. They are culpable.
If you are responding to my post(s), then you are still not getting it.
My question is not about culpability. I think we ALL agree they are culpable.
What my point is that if we [apostates/critics of the WTS] make a claim and throw out 'facts' and statistics as truths, we should be sure that we are throwing out accurate information. You know how everyone jumped on the thread about the supposed active bethelite calling in to a conference call?? You know how many people think it's bogus?? Presenting false statistics diminishes the presenter's credibility. The same happens to us when we fabricate facts or exagerate statistics. We lose credibility.
And it's a valuable life-skill to check your facts before presenting them.
I'm just trying to verify the math and any links you can provide to help verify is appreciated.
-Aude.
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MrFreeze
http://www.secinfo.com/dVgzt.619z.htm
I'm just saying I never listed a figure. I just said I was aware and I have read things about them owning stock in the company. From my perspective, I have not listed any figures, I just pointed out that they did hold stock in it and that was the only important thing.
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Band on the Run
I don't want to research Rand ....whatever. Did they make engines in general that could be diverted to war use? Did they build engines specifically for war use?
The nuns and brothers who protested at corporate sh meetings owned only a few shares. I believe these were gifts b/c you'd have to purchase more than one share through a broker. I clearly remember watching the evening news and seeing them stand up to all these suits in a massive room. The men at the dais were not happy. I thought it was better than throwing bricks.
Perhaps there should be two standards for posting information. Casual use here and more detailed and fact checked for use off-site.
As usual, I would also want to know the stock holdings of other religions. Of course, they surpass other religions.
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cameo-d
How do you all think that the old timers who went to prison rather than go to war would feel about this deception?
My friend served several years in prison as a conscientious objector. Even if he had not been a JW I am certain he still would have taken that same road. In prison they were offered money, better food and privileges if they would work in laundry. But the laundry was uniforms for the troops. My friend refused to do even that because it still had a connection to war. I think his standards were higher than the organization he belonged to.
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cameo-d
Blondie: "Christians paid their taxes in the first century to Rome and certainly some of that money was used to support wars. What did the early Christians say about that?"
Rightly so, Blondie. I doubt "Christians" had anything to say about it as "Christianity" was in it's developing stages, or rather "damage control" after the crucifixion and turning over the tables at the temple and exposing the scams and exploitations of the people by the priests and pharisees.
In our day and time, taxes are voluntary.
In 1945, a time when the war was at it's peak and people were very distracted with it, the Supreme Court defined the term "United States" to have three separate and distinct meanings. One of those definitions is that the US includes areas of land such as the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Guam and American Samoa...BUT.....it does NOT include the 50 states of the Union.
One of the tricks of Legalese is to give new meanings to common words. The word "includes", in legal terms, means "limited to" and not "in addition to" as most people would normally define 'includes' in the common English language.
Therefore, if the 50 states are not included in the definition of the United States....
You will find some very enlightening information if you peruse this.
It is easier to point out the log in the eye of the Watchtower, but we all need to take personal inventory as to what we are supporting by our words, actions and deeds.
When you accept that you are a collective member of a society that promotes war, are you not guilty by association? If you have given that society the authority to speak for you or to operate on your behalf, are your hands not bloody, too, if your spokesman wages war to supply the needs of its society with the spoils? Whether that "Society" is the WatchTower Society or any other group that calls itself a society, if you are a member of it, would this not hold true?
Those who do not ask more questions remind me of JWs that have the attitude it's better not to know (if the meat is properly bled, etc. etc) because that way...if you don't really know for sure you are not held accountable. That is flawed reasoning.
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PublishingCult
If you apply the GB's reasoning regarding celebrating a birthday, giving to charities, or refusing to purchase a 25 cent card from the Malawian government, then yes, paying taxes is tantamount to funding and supporting war.
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Band on the Run
Actually, I've specialized in early Christianity as an interest. I've read that Christians both served and did not serve. I've wondered if there were regional belief with some being pacifists and other serving.. It makes sense before the advent of the Roman Catholic Church and political dominance over other groups. My uncle did time at Danbury during WWII. Many men my mom grew up with landed in prison. They would be astounded.
Sadly, I think they would justify it somehow. They could not accept that the Truth would do this.
Isn't there a way to linkt he information?
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OUTLAW
This is for Everyone Interested in Rand Cam..
I`m going to Provide you with a Link..Then I`m going to Teach you How to use the JWN Search Engine..
1st.. the Link..
Click the Link..
JW's part of the WAR MACHINE (1), Jehovah's Witnesses / Friends ...
2nd..How to use the JWN Search Engine..
Look at the Top Left of this Page..Find the Search Button..Click it..
Type in "Rand Cam Watchtower Documents"..Then Click "Search"..
You will find More Information on Rand Cam by Doing This..
You can do this for Any Subject you want to Research on JWN..
........................
...OUTLAW -
AudeSapere
Thank you, Outlaw.
