2 Witnesses spoken of in Revelation

by Kimberly090 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Kimberly090

    Hey everyone!

    I was looking on facebook and came across a page called facebook.com/wefoundthem and they were speaking about the 2 Witnesses. What do you all think? I have seen a little bit about a Witness in the Watchtower but not much. I'm still trying to get more info.

    If you all have any information that would help me out please let me know. I really want to know more about the 2 Witnesses!


  • Leolaia

    What is it about the two witnesses are you asking about? In Revelation they are described as akin to Moses and Elijah (compare with the transfiguration tradition, wherein Moses and Elijah accompany Jesus in glory), whereas elsewhere in Christian tradition they are identified as Enoch and Elijah (the two OT prophets who never died). The earliest expression of this is in the Animal Apocalypse (second century BC), which has Enoch and Elijah returning to earth just before Judgment Day. Revelation however bears special relation with the Oracles of Hystaspes, and there there is a single individual who corresponds to the two witnesses of Revelation.

  • Larsinger58

    Well, actually...

    Recall the parable about the ten slaves (also 3 slaves) that Christ sends out with a single coin to do business? How one returns 10-fold. One returns 5-fold? Well those are the two witnesses. The two larges secret movements of Christ's followers.

    Also recall how these two witnesses are killed by the U.N. for 3-1/2 days just before the second coming? Well the U.N. agents, which the WTS was a part of at this time (post 1992) participated in this. That is the two witnessses were working together to set of the logistics of the second coming but the U.N. agents got wind of this via the WTS, newly joined to the U.N. in ealy 1992 and so they were effective using advanced methods (i.e. alchemy) to prevent the 2nd coming from occurring on the expected date, which was December 21, 1992, the day of the winter solstice which is significant to Christ since he is represented as the Sun. (They drugged the messiah with an air-borne agent carried by a perfume, if you must know). Anyway, that ostensibly "killed" the two witnesses in regards to their preaching about the coming messiah on the solstice. The two witnesses were killed but not "buried." Thus a second effort was made to isolate the messiah (the person who would receive Christ's spirit from heaven so he could become flesh again) from the UN agents for at least 2 days. This was successful. But because Fred Franz cooperated with the UN in preventing the second coming, Jehovah executed Fred Franz on the next day, December 22nd. This certainly interrupted some logistical operations between the U.N. and Franz and allowed for a loop hole for the 2nd coming to take place 3-1/2 days later as the Bible also prophesied. The death of Fanz on the day after the winter solstice is not a coincidence.

    The greater overview of the "two witnesses" is their membership in the JIOR ("Jehovah Is Our Righteousness" group) who is represented by the woman in Revelation who is hidden in the wilderness (meaning secret societies) by Jehovah. Thus this woman is made up of several secret slave classes who are present when Christ arrived in 1992. But the "two witnesses" are the largest of these secret sects.

    Finally, recall that the largest sect, the one with ten-fold increase receives what is given up by the evil slave. The evil slave represents the WTS. Thus those leaving the WTS, literally or spiritually, come to the secret society of the 10-fold slave, which is one of the "two witnesses." One of the witnesses, the one with ten-fold increase is well integrated with the secret elect of the WTS.

    So being of the elect, I can say some people can only "guess" about who the "two witnesses" are and some of us actually know from direct experience who they are and how precisely some of the prophecies about them actually were fulfilled; some things that happen in a very private and secretive world.

    Keep in mind that "wilderness" in Revelation is a symbol for behind the scenes and secret societies. Note, therefore, that Babylon the Great is seen in a vision "in the wilderness" Rev 17:3. BTG, of course, is the harlot that sits on the UN representing the Illuminati-based organizations linked with the secret societies such as Skull and Bones, the Federal Reserve, the CFR, you name it. So on the surface you have the public things going on but behind the scenes these secret societies, like opposing spy agencies, doing all kinds of things, deeply seated in local Freemasonry operations and in every social interactive situation you can imagine. Satan doesn't miss a trick. But in the end, Christ wins.


  • drewcoul
  • Awen

    I second that.

  • transhuman68

    To sum it all up:

    It means whatever you want it to mean.

    John was smoking some of the bad stuff when he wrote Revelation, and nobody has ever made sense of it since.

  • Ding

    I'm surprised the WTS hasn't equated the 2 witnesses with the Watchtower and Awake magazines...

    ... or Russell and Rutherford...

    ... or spiritualized them to be the anointed class and the other sheep class...

    Evidently, they don't know either.

  • Larsinger58

    To sum it all up:

    It means whatever you want it to mean.

    John was smoking some of the bad stuff when he wrote Revelation, and nobody has ever made sense of it since

    I have. Sorry you haven't.


  • Listener

    Revelation Climax 25
    From 1914 to 1918 the nations were occupied with the first world war. Nationalistic feelings ran high, and in the spring of 1918, the religious enemies of the two witnesses took advantage of the situation. They maneuvered the State’s legal apparatus so that responsible ministers of the Bible Students were imprisoned on false charges of sedition. Faithful coworkers were stunned. Kingdom activity almost ceased. It was as though the preaching work were dead. In Bible times it was a terrible indignity not to be interred in a memorial tomb. (Psalm 79:1-3; 1 Kings 13:21, 22) Therefore, great reproach would attach to leaving the two witnesses unburied. In the hot Palestinian climate, a corpse in the open street would really start to smell after three and a half literal days. (Compare John 11:39.) This detail in the prophecy thus indicates the shame that the two witnesses had to endure. Those mentioned above who were imprisoned were even denied bail while their cases were on appeal. They were exposed publicly long enough to become a stench to the inhabitants of “the great city.” But what was this “great city”?

    According to the JWs the two witnesses were just one group - responsible ministers. Even though they were 'dead' it seems that some preaching still took place during 1914 to 1918 so there must have been just a little bit of life in them at that time. Also Revelation states that they died after they had completed their witnessing but in the history of JWs they just continued on as they did before their deaths. The good news is that these two witnesses must still be in existance.

    Whilst looking up the JWs interpretation I came across this

    W99 11/1
    The book of Revelation was written “in signs.” According to Revelation 1:1, Jesus wanted to reveal to “his slaves” (not the world in general) what would shortly take place. To understand the book of Revelation, Christ’s slaves, or followers, would need God’s holy spirit, which Jehovah gives to those who please him. If the book of Revelation is to be understood literally, even faithless people could read it and understand it. Then there would be no need for Christians to pray for holy spirit in order to understand it.—Matthew 13:10-15.

    It's a pity that they have already interpreted most of Revelation, including the two witnesses as it doesn't leave them much room to excuse away changed interpretations as new light. It would actually mean that they did not have the holy spirit at the time of the original interpretation.

  • Larsinger58

    "According to the JWs the two witnesses were just one group - responsible ministers. Even though they were 'dead' it seems that some preaching still took place during 1914 to 1918 so there must have been just a little bit of life in them at that time. Also Revelation states that they died after they had completed their witnessing but in the history of JWs they just continued on as they did before their deaths. The good news is that these two witnesses must still be in existance."

    The above is impossible chronologically. 1914-1918 was the time of the League of Nations. The "two witnesses" are killed by the beast that ascends out of the abyss, which is not until it goes into the abyss. The beast that goes into the abyss is not the one that ascends out of it. It goes in as the League of Nations and then comes out as the United Nations.

    Rev 11:7 "And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them."

    What's more the United States didn't join the League of Nations and that institution really didn't get going until around 1920-1921. This was after the WTS leaders had been released in March of 1919. So this in no way works!

    On the other hand, the beast that goes into the abyss is the League of Nations but the beast that ascends out of the abyss is the United Nations. So it is not until the UN comes onto the scene that the two witnesses are killed. Further, after 3-1/2 days of death, they are "called up to heaven" which is an indication that the second coming occurs 3-1/2 days after they are killed, that is, after their ministry claims that Christ would return in the flesh on December 21st, the winter solstice did not take place.

    JWs claim that Jesus Christ returned in 1914. The two witnesses are killed 3-1/2 days before the second coming. That is, only when Christ kicks Satan out of heaven and makes a place for the elect can anyone be symbolically called up to heaven. Thus by even that context we know that the second coming occurs 3-1/2 days after the U.N. kills the "two witnesses." So no way no how does the WTS understand this.

    In the meantime, what do we finding happening in 1992? First off, the 1260 days of witnessing by the "two witnesses" is a 3-1/2 year period. The 70th week during our time calculated from 36 CE is from 1989-1996. that is, from the Fall of 1989 to the Fall of 1996. The mid-week passover which is the first and last passover to be eaten by Christ after his return occurs on April 6, 1993. So the second coming year has to be between Passover of 1992 and Passover of 1993. Nobody knows the "day nor hour" though.

    But note what significantly happens in 1992. The WTS applies for UN membership in late 1991 and is granted it in early 1992. So at this point the apostate WTS GB and the UN are one and the same element. The WTS interests in suppressing this potential messiah are now combined with that of UN agencies who are interested in the same thing.

    This is very private and secretive so I'll just tell you what happened, generally. Operations connected with the person who would become the Christ were centered near the modern-day throne of Satan, which is in Arcadia, California. The "two witnesses" had set things up for the messiah to become the Christ at the time of the winter solstice, December 21st, which apparently is the time Christ became flesh the first time. That is, at the time of the "Annunciation" to Mary that she had become pregnant by holy spirit. So this was to be duplicated. But UN agents shut down operations by the "two witnesses" in the congregations in this area, which were the Monrovia, Arcadia and Duarte congregations. This was not a problem for the UN agents who likely had ties with the local FBI and CIA.

    On the occult side of things, the second coming required the messiah to be in a transe for at least a day and a half. This required isolation. Once the messiah was identified, it would be impossible to create this isolation so that the second coming could take place logistically. That is, it is easy to interrupt someone, wake them up, etc. even if they were in a motel room, paid up and with instructions not to be disturbed. It couldn't happen at the home of the messiah either, where he could also be disturbed.

    Further, if the messiah could be drugged as to prevent his ability to sleep or by a drug that interrupted his sleep function, then that could prevent the second coming from occuring as well. That part of the plan was successful. The Illuminati has all kinds of secret drugs. In this case, an air-borne drug laced with perfume was inhaled by the messiah on the 21st, preventing the 2nd coming from occurring. In this way the witness work of the two witnesses, at least as far as the 21st second coming was killed.

    As noted above, the WTS was part of the UN and apparently orchestrating and coordinating this effort. As a result, Jehovah executed then president Fred Franz the very next day on the 22nd. This disrupted some operations. A second attempt to isolate the messiah and hide him from UN agents was successful 3 days later on Christmas Day. This was a narrow window of opportunity because UN agents had a skeleton crew apparently at this time, allowing agents time off for Christmas Eve and Christmas. Apparently a shift change at midnight was interrupted by about 10 minutes. The agent coming on duty at midnight was late and the current agent watching a motel room where the messiah was didn't wait. The second agent was just 5-10 minutes away though and the messiah was booked in the motel for the next 2 days. Further, he was on foot and forced to use public transportation and the electronic bugs placed in his clothing or on his person would make it easy to find him. So he was basically trapped and the UN agents felt relaxed. But at this precise time where the surveillance was interrupted for just a few minutes is when the messiah slipped out of the motel room and into a neighborhood. The new agent coming on duty presumed he was still in the motel room. The messiah walked about 1/4 mile to a pre-designated commercial metal dumpster. The metal dumpster acted as a shield to any tracking devices planted on the messiah and as well would not have been in use on Christmas Day since the store was closed. In this way, the messiah could go into a trance for the 2 days needed for the second coming.

    The messiah had to experience the "war in heaven" which was Satan's trial and then his expulsion. Then the "transmigration" of the Christ in heaven into his own physical body. Then after that, extensive interviews with Jehovah himself. In the meantime, the UN agents had no way to drug him or interrupt his sleep because they couldn't find him. Their tracking devices were useless while he was in the thick metal dumpster.

    He emerged from the dumpster on the afternoon of the 26th a full day and a half later. At that point the glorious "sign of the son of man" appeared and a voice out of heaven, that sounded like thunder said, "This is my son whom I have approved"... just like before.

    So that's the ACTUAL FULFILLMENT, the UN assisted by the WTS killing the "two witnesses". Of course, after the "transmigration" takes place and Christ inherits the body of the messiah, after kicking Satan out of heaven, then the "two witnesses" can be called up to heaven for their heavenly seats! The heavens are now cleansed of Satan! Apparently the UN departments assigned to this task were dismantled since they failed. There was nothing they could do about it now, except I suppose plan a few assasination attempts later on down the road. Of course, all of them fail.

    Now doesn't this match better what the Bible describes? The UN killing the "two witnesses" just before the second coming? Now you know how that occurred. The dumpster was located about 30 miles away from his home near Arcadia. The angels in heaven were so glad Satan was gone, they were still partying the next 3 days! So Satan was a MAJOR pain in the asss up there!

    The WTS' claim about this happening in 1918 just don't work. They were arrested by the US government who wasn't even part of the League of Nations not that the LON in any way is the beast that the Bible is talking about. The LON is the beast that DE-scends into the abyss, not the one that AS-cends out of the abyss.

    Anyway, the false prophet is false, but the Bible is true. The 2nd coming must occur in 1992-1993 and it did! But it was so private, so secret, how could anyone not directly involved know? As the Bible says, Christ appears like a "thief in the night" for the majority of the world and the second coming does not occur with much "observableness". Christ appears in the "clouds" which means he is not directly seen. When the messiah is directly seen, it is like "lightning" and only to the elect. That is, over a very large area for a flash of time. That was fulfilled when he appeared for a short interview on national television. Once on 20/20 and once on the Gong Show (I know, laugh it up, but it fulfilled the prophecy).

    In case you missed it. A television appearance is like lightning. It is seen from coast to coast but just for a short time. Any of the elect could see the messiah if they had a TV and knew when and what channel to tune in on (even though there were some re-runs). Many of these things are set up by the JIOR who is led by the "two witnesses."

    Now I know most people here will find all this very hard to believe. But GB members monitoring these discussion boards will believe it.

    I'll just say one more thing about drugs. Former drug addicts in recovery can't even be in a room where drugs are being smoked because even if they don't smoke it themselves, it still can be detected in their system. As I noted, if a woman wearing strong perfume walks into a room, everybody can smell it. So we inhale substances all the time. Some air-borne substances are deadly. So who knows what advanced chemicals the CIA have to use or that they can atomize or add to a perfume? What is impressive is that Satan's agents or perhaps the WTS understood what was sufficiently necessary for the transmigration to take place. Perhaps there was some betrayal involved. Someone betrayed Christ the first time. Maybe WTS spies in the JIOR found out about the plans by the "two witnesses" to effect the second coming by drugging the messiah and preventing him to fall asleep for 24 hours. That is all that was necessary. A relatively simple task for an agency with lots of agents who keep a person under constant surveillance.

    So while the reality is rather interesting in the fulfillment, we still get to see how the Bible is true and that these things actually happened, even though prophesied in advance 2000 years. We can also see the WTS is definitely apostate now and they received a letter from the messiah basically telling them they were the "evil slave" and were to be cast into spiritual darkness. In other words, they were "disfellowshipped" from Jehovah's Heavenly Organization. This occurred specifically 45 days before the second coming. The 2nd coming was on December 25, the GB was disfellowshipped on November 10th. This is another fulfillment of the 1290 and the "1335 days" prophecy.

    Soon the UN will take over world government and completely destroy the Illuminati and confiscate all their trillions, that is, they will destroy the Federal Reserve. 15 months after that someone, likely Barack Obama will declare "peace and security" at which point Armageddon will ensue. There is still time for this to happen before the Mayan calendar ends on December 21, 2012. But not that much time!!!


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